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London High Rise fire - Turning point for flammable cladding?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by basilio, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. McLovin

    McLovin

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    The question of cost is wrt whether to retrofit or whether to start new. I'm not really sure what your arguing about. To be fair, even when lives are at stake cost matters. At some point risk is accepted because to reduce it further becomes punitively expensive. I'm not suggesting this was the case in London, it's just a general point.

    No, they'd have to pay to sue, but I would bet my last dollar that the powers that be are already writing the, substantial, compensation cheques. Especially given if it turns out, as the Hammond claimed today, that that cladding is banned in the UK on buildings that high. There is absolutely no way any politician would ever want this to see the inside of a courtroom. It will be a lot different to the last tower fire in 2009, where compo dragged on for years.

    FWIW, the police have already opened a criminal investigation.

     
  2. luutzu

    luutzu

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    It'll be cheaper, more energy efficient, safer etc.

    Problem is... once it's knocked down, new calculus will come into play. Like... let's house the current residents at a "temporary" place a bit further away... let's make the most out of these new developments so that it maximises value for the taxpayers.. then pretty soon new, pricey apartment blocks get designed... those temporary residents can managed to be away from these place for these years, they don't need to come back etc. etc.

    That's how you gentrify and priced out unwanted company.
     
  3. luutzu

    luutzu

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    Yea I know what you mean. Was just being glib about costs and affordability when it's helping out the working poor; but it's unlimited budget when "safety and security" call for wars and airstrikes.
     
  4. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    Its not always a bad thing.
     
  5. basilio

    basilio

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    More back story to the horror of the Grenfell fire. Turns out the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Association had been taking legal action against tenants attempting to have fire safety issued addressed.

    Two women feared dead in Grenfell Tower were 'threatened with legal action' for raising alarm about fire safety
    ‘They bullied them and persecuted those like Nadia and Mariem who were brave enough to speak out, branding them troublemakers’




    [​IMG]
    Mariem Elgwahry (pictured), 27, and Nadia Choucair, 33, reportedly received letters ordering them to stop their campaign
    Two women feared dead in the Grenfell Tower tragedy were allegedly threatened with legal action after they campaigned for improved fire safety.

    Mariem Elgwahry, 27, and Nadia Choucair, 33, reportedly received letters ordering them to stop their campaign for improved safety.

    Both women were fighting the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation for building improvements, with help from the Radical Housing Network, The Mirror reports.

    Pilgrim Tucker, who works for the group, told the paper: “The TMO’s response was to threaten tenants with legal action and send out letters. Nadia and Mariem would have received them too.

    “They both just wanted to do their best for their neighbours and keep everyone safe. Things had got so bad they knew a disaster like this was inevitable, but if there was a chance of stopping it they were up for the fight. But no one listened and now this community is devastated. We have to get justice for them. The TMO treated tenants disgracefully and with disdain.

    “They bullied them and persecuted those like Nadia and Mariem who were brave enough to speak out, branding them troublemakers.

    “Their job was to listen to the tenants and make sure homes were safe and they didn’t do that. If they had then this would never have happened.”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-mariem-elgwahry-nadia-choucair-a7795586.html
     
  6. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    Surely this will prompt change. A few heads should roll as well.
     
  7. luutzu

    luutzu

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    I guess that depends.

    People can only be pushed so far until they pushes back. And if the 1% want to push that 99%, that 1% better have the police, the security and the military among their ranks. Hired guns can be fickle.

    I've been watching a few YouTube interview, raw interviews, of residents and people around the tower. There's real anger among all of them. All directed at the politicians.

    They know it's class warfare, they know they've been screwed. Heck, some even say they don't gives a crap about terrorists. That these kind of inferno is the real terrorism, directed at them and their kind, by their own government.

    They no longer believe the bs on the mainstream media, they see all the talks as hollow. They're saying that it's not 15, or 17, or 50 dead... it's in the hundreds. How? Because they haven't seen any of those people they know lived in the tower. They do see pictures of missing people on t-shirts.

    So we outsiders reading the press or watching the news are all thinking it's just an unfortunate accident, some negligence, most got out because so few are confirmed dead. Those being affected don't see that. Because they live it all these years.

    The elite have become too comfortable with their own propaganda. Believing that welfare and social housing are just to benefit the poor. They forgot that it's those crumbs that keeps the poor from crashing through those gates.

    But that's nuts right? It might happen a long time ago in Imperial China, the American colonies, the kingdoms and empire of Europe. Can never happen nowadays.
     
  8. luutzu

    luutzu

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  9. basilio

    basilio

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    FMD ! That was the most devastating, coherent, unscripted rant on the "papering of poverty" imaginable

    Will this guy ever work again ? Has he been too xxxxxing clear and honest ? How in gods name did such a searing, expletive ridden, reality check get onto You tube.

    Seditious
     
  10. basilio

    basilio

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    Ok . Just got a wake up call... That "reporter", Jonathan Pie, is of course a fictitious character created by English comedian Tom Walker. Just sharpens the counterpoint of how vacuously stupid and nasty current politics in England is today.
    Worth looking up his other incarnations. But Papering over Poverty is going to be iconic.
     
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  11. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    The high density slum flats need to go.
    As for poverty, most of it is imported. We are shifting poor from one country to another. Jobs ain't there and will only get worse. Personally I think if the go after the cash economy people will eventually riot.
     
  12. luutzu

    luutzu

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  13. Tisme

    Tisme Apathetic at Best

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    Yeah, but as usual it will a lamb to slaughter, not the rams who lead the guilty mob.
     
  14. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    It shouldn't be hard to determine the number of deaths if those in authority really wanted to get it right.

    Police still collect information on missing persons don't they?

    Surely most of those living in the tower would have had at least one person they made regular contact with who will know they are missing? Boss / other workers, school teachers, friends, family, missed medical or other appointments and so on. Surely for 90%+ there would be someone who could raise the alarm and say that person X has gone missing.

    What about banks? They record names and addresses of customers don't they? If someone has a recorded address at the tower and hasn't accessed their account since the fire then either they're in hospital or most likely they're dead.

    Do the above and that ought to identify the vast majority. The only reason not to is if someone doesn't want to reveal the true extent of what has happened.
     
  15. McLovin

    McLovin

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    UK police do not confirm deaths until bodies are positively identified, in most cases. Given the intensity of that fire, I doubt the process of finding bodies and then identifying them is not as straight forward as it seems on the internet. What they probably have is a list of missing people and they will not confirm a death count until they have bodies. It's the same reason that young Australian girl who was murdered in that London terror attack a few weeks ago was listed as missing until her parents had identified her, even though the press were treating it as a given.
     
  16. basilio

    basilio

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    No doubt the police will identify the residents who lived in the tower through the means you have outlined Smirf.

    What is still being assessed are the people who could have been visiting friends on the evening. Or perhaps staying in a flat without some formal address. There is every chance some drifters will fall into that category. The intensity of the fire will make it very difficult to identify everyone. Horrific stuff. And at some stage authorities will have to call a halt to sifting through the ashes and deal with the burnt out building.
     
  17. luutzu

    luutzu

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    They already have a good idea how many are dead, they just don't want to release the bad news all at once. It'll start a riot.

    They'll also be getting brown, black and Muslim survivor in front of the cameras too. Give the impression that it's "only" "those people" anyway, not white freckle poorer cousin of ours.
     
  18. Mark Anthony

    Mark Anthony

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    for sure there will be tighter regulations that need to be re examine by the parliament. . the incident can be an eye opener for us to be more concerned with fire safety because for sure prospects will be asking those kind of questions
     
  19. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    Didn't take too long for the conspiracy theorists to compare this building with WTC7 did it?

    Now that can of worms is open we'll never hear the end of it :cautious:
     
  20. qldfrog

    qldfrog

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    or obviously the number of illegal immigrants who will have no link to any official records.Any figure provided will have to be a low ball estimate for sure.
     
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