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Julian Assange - Where Will This Finish?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Ann, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Ann

    Ann

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    The ongoing question of Journalists rights and freedom of the press will likely be bigger than the events which overtake Assange now he has been arrested. It may or may not see greater censorship and control over the media in general. No doubt Trump will be looking to get revenge against a lot of his journalist and media foes. Although the question in my mind, will Trump be somewhat sympathetic toward Assange with his exposure of Hilary Clinton's hacked emails? Let's see.

    Assange's indictment is Trump's next step in his war on press freedom

    The WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is so disliked in journalism and political circles that many reporters and liberal politicians were publicly cheering on Thursday when the Trump administration released an indictment of Assange, which was related to his interactions with the whistleblower Chelsea Manning in the months leading up to the publication of Pentagon and state department cables in 2010. More...



    'He uncovered war crimes': Greens leader urges government to protect Julian Assange

    Greens leader Richard Di Natale says the Australian government should be making use of its close relationship with the United States to campaign against the prosecution of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

    Assange's father, John Shipton, has urged the Morrison government to provide special assistance to Assange, suggesting he could somehow be brought to Australia. More...

    Hillary Clinton: Assange must 'answer for what he has done' in wake of arrest

    Hillary Clinton said the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, whose website published hacked emails from her 2016 presidential campaign, must “answer for what he has done” in the wake of his dramatic arrest on Thursday.


    Her comments came hours after Assange was forcibly removed from the Ecuadorian embassy in London and taken into custody by London’s Metropolitan police and charged by the US with conspiring to hack into a secret Pentagon computer network. More..


     
  2. qldfrog

    qldfrog

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    I wonder if he will be suicided...
    Would please everyone
    Uk will send him to sweden getting rid of the hot potato and then sweden will ship it to the us military after promised he will not be executed.just condemned to 20 prison to life separatesentences
    What a fool thinking the west was freedom
    he should have gone to russia
    No independent can survived in our new brave world
     
  3. Sdajii

    Sdajii Sdaji

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    If you're on the left you can say what you want, you can lie, you can source information from wherever you want, you can exaggerate and misrepresent it, and you can do it with impunity. We constantly see this.

    If you're anything right of extreme left, it's a dangerous game simply stating facts. People doing so have a mysteriously high rate of unfortunate accidents and unusual suicides in suspicious circumstances, or criminal charges for offenses lefties commit far worse but have mysterious legal immunity for.

    Funny how everyone on the right seems to get unrealistic sexual charges from alleged incidents many years early launched against them. Crazy coincidence, huh? In Assange's case the charges were dropped because it became too obvious that they were fake, although if you read the comments on the news articles most people think he is guilty (despite there not even being actual allegations!).

    If you can't see there is a conspiracy here, if you can't see which side is in power, if you can't see which side is the evil one (not to say the others are perfect of course), there's something wrong with you. Unfortunately there is something wrong with most people.

    There's not 'a risk of this getting worse'; this has been an ongoing issue which is continually and consistently getting more extreme.

    Facts are not important to people anymore. Looking properly into things before making judgements is not important. Being capable of understanding things before believing them isn't important. For most people now, it's important to just be a good little useful idiot and believe the mainstream narrative on every issue.

    There's an actual, massive, evil conspiracy, so they made sure that 'conspiracy theorist' psychologically links to 'crazy, paranoid and wrong'.

    It doesn't take a genius to see which side controls the propaganda (mainstream and social media). It doesn't take a genius to see that things are rapidly getting worse. It doesn't take a genius to put these two things together. Unfortunately, most people are *really* stupid.
     
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  4. Knobby22

    Knobby22 Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

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    “The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.

    The truth is far more frightening - Nobody is in control.

    The world is rudderless.”
    ― Alan Moore
     
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  5. Ann

    Ann

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    I tend to agree with you Knobby but the problem is there are delusional people the likes of Soros, Gates, Besoz et al who believe they can control the world with sheer weight of cash and political clout. Their will be done! They create all sorts of collateral damage along the way.

    This may appear so but I have my doubts about this being true. This universe is regulated with regular patterns in greater and lesser ways, we just need to look for them to find peace.

    I can't imagine how Assange may be feeling, one wonders if he has trained himself to calm his mind and meditate and find his place of peace.
     
  6. Sdajii

    Sdajii Sdaji

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    See, this is the attitude which makes people misunderstand.

    They think that if someone believes in a conspiracy, they believe in an almight, all powerful, literally 'firmly controlling the whole world' type conspiracy.

    In reality, conspiracies do tangibly exist all around us, ranging from two people conspiring to hurt someone else's social life through to what Anne is describing. Large (not literally firm-control-of-the-whole-world level large, but still large) conspiracies do exist, and they don't need to be ultimately successful conspiracies to be conspiracies.

    If you can't see that there are groups of people attempting to control the world or significant parts/aspects of the world you are blind. By definition, these are conspiracies.

    The question is not whether or not conspiracies exist, but where they exist and the nature of them. People have been conditioned to believe that they don't exist at all and anyone who sees any of them is crazy. It's a completely absurd notion, but the powers that be would prefer that regular people pay as little attention to it as possible and just go about their little lives (which to be fair I just want to do too).
     
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  7. Ann

    Ann

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    Assange is a scapegoat, distraction for scandal-ridden Ecuadorian government

    As he faces a major corruption probe, Ecuadorian President Lenin Moreno has met another demand from Washington by booting WikiLeaks journalist Julian Assange out of Ecuador’s embassy in London.
    Times were different when the WikiLeaks founder walked into Ecuador’s London embassy seeking asylum in 2012.

    Fearing that his native Australia wouldn’t protect him from extradition to the United States, where he faces imprisonment or even execution, Assange appealed to Ecuador’s then-president Rafael Correa to grant him refuge from “political persecution.”

    Ecuador agreed, granting him asylum on the grounds that his “life, safety or personal integrity” could be compromised at any moment.

    Having also kicked US troops off its soil just a few years earlier, the tiny South American nation’s gesture was applauded by many, including domestically.

    Fast forward seven years, and Ecuador has now handed him over for almost certain extradition.

    The country’s former consul general in London says the move is not only unwarranted but also illegal under international law.

    This is a violation of the right and the institution of asylum,” Fidel Narvaez told me. More...
     
  8. orr

    orr

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    Some need no help to appear so.....

    So you've had a Good look at "Collateral Murder" the full forty plus minutes? Why this incident was kept from the public ?And Why you have made a judgement on why or why not it should have been made public...
    When you see the the two children taken by the marines from the van just after the 30mm Apache helicopter cannon fire has gone through the windshield; What did you feel ?
    I can give you the link to the Marine who carried at least one of those children. Are you up to it?

    Assange is a journalist... Not knowing stuff is one thing. Talking about things you know not enough about just makes you look stupid.

    Knowing where a story starts at least gives you a point from where to assess an end/finish.
     
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  9. Ann

    Ann

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    Thank you for bringing this up orr, it is highly pertinent to the whole Assange situation.

    Most of us have probably seen some or all of the footage but I found this Wikipedia page which appears to give a very balanced (IMO) description of the actual events and aftermath.
    July 12, 2007, Baghdad airstrike
     
  10. Sdajii

    Sdajii Sdaji

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    I hadn't watched it before, but watched it just now.

    Interesting video for sure, but I'm not sure what the relevance of it to what I said is or what point you're trying to make (not saying you don't have a valid one, I'm just not seeing it, maybe my fault for being stupid or not reading closely enough, or maybe I just like to be dead clear sometimes). It's not often we see footage of a battle like that. I'm sure some people would see that and say war is ugly and this video proves we should never do it. Some would see those on the ground preparing an attack and praise the Americans for stopping it. Some would say the Americans should have done something but went too far. Some would say it should not have been shown to the public (and there would be any number of reasons given), others would say it's important that it was shared, and they'd have just as many reasons to support their views. I'm actually not sure what your position is.

    Why should they (unless I'm misinferring who you mean by 'they') publicise this? There are countless battles being fought all the time, 'they' can't publicise all of them.

    Not sure what the relevance of the link to someone's identity is, but if you think it's worth a look, send the link.
     
  11. IFocus

    IFocus You are arguing with a Galah

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    This is how it works

     
  12. satanoperca

    satanoperca

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    Ifocus. That is brilliant. We have a gutless govnuts.
    He should be a national hero - he represents to me what an australian is- standing up to the establishment.
    It is a shame the vast majority of aussies have become sheep. We should all hold our heads in shame.
    What made this country great has diminished, no one is willing to fight for what is right.
    No wonder our poltics and govnuts is a mess. Everyone has lost their balls
     
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  13. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    The guy is an utter wanker. But I do believe in his work to expose the dirty secrets of the world.
    Freedom has been eroded. But it ain't the governments... its all you pi$s weak biatches for accepting every right given up.
     
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  14. satanoperca

    satanoperca

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    I don't judge the person who does the work, but rather the work that is done
     
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  15. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    Being an a$shole doesn’t take away from your work. Look at steve jobs. That guy was A grade material.
     
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  16. Ann

    Ann

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    Assange Hit With Espionage Act Violations As DoJ Unveils 17 New Charges

    The worst fears of Julian Assange's legal team have just been realized.


    Just as Wikileaks' editor in chief anticipated, the DoJ has revealed that a grand jury in Virginia has returned a new 18-count superseding indictment against Assange that includes violations of the Espionage Act stemming from his role in publishing the classified documents leaked by Chelsea Manning, as well as his original charge of conspiring to break into a government computer, per the New York Times.


    The DOJ said with the indictment that Assange will face a maximum of 10 years for each of the 17 Espionage Act violations, plus the five-year penalty for his earlier hacking charge. More...
     
  17. basilio

    basilio

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    That wasn't a "battle". That was a US helicopter gunship shooting up a number of unarmed people including journalists because they could.

    It exposed the type of criminal behaviour committed by US troops in Iraq and the cavalier attitude to human life.

    The public exposure of these incidents by Wikileaks embarrassed the US government and made it impossible to deny the reality of these actions.

    The efforts to destroy Julian Assunge are a punishment for producing evidence about the behaviour of US troops and a clear warning to any other journalist to keep mum if anything similar happens again.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike
     
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  18. Ann

    Ann

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    This is coming from the mainstream media...
    ‘Frightening’: Charges Against Julian Assange Alarm Press Advocates

    Journalists and press freedom groups reacted with alarm on Thursday after the Trump administration announced new charges against Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks leader, for publishing classified information, in a case that legal experts say takes direct aim at previously sacrosanct protections for the news media.

    In indicting Mr. Assange for obtaining, accepting and disseminating classified materials, the Department of Justice opened a new front in its campaign against illegal leaks. While past cases involved government employees who provided material to journalists, the Assange indictment could amount to the pursuit of a publisher for making that material available to the public.

    “It’s not criminal to encourage someone to leak classified information to you as a journalist — that’s called news gathering, and there are First Amendment protections for news gathering,” said Theodore J. Boutrous Jr., a lawyer who frequently represents media organizations like CNN. “The ramifications of this are so potentially dangerous and serious for the ability of journalists to gather and disseminate information that the American people have a right to know.” More...
     
  19. Sdajii

    Sdajii Sdaji

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    It certainly wasn't an even battle, and the event was highly unfortunate in many ways, but Americans were fired on first and in the heat of the moment it's understandable that sometimes the reaction will be over the top. If all people were perfect this wouldn't happen, but if all people were perfect no one would ever be violent toward anyone, ever. The guys who are in the position of making the call of whether to act or not act are in a damned if they do damned if they don't situation. If they hadn't taken any action and it turned out that the people involved did go on to kill more Americans or innocent people, they would be damned. It's easy for people like us to make mistakes like buying or selling a stock on the wrong day and saying 'oops, it turned out I was wrong, I lost some money/missed out on some profit', it's okay if you're stocking shelves at the supermarket and stock the soup cans in the baked bean area and have to redo it, it's not so bad if you're a real estate agent and due to an error you get a worse price than you could have, but we're all human beings, surgeons make mistakes and it kills people but someone needs to be a surgeon. The guys who need to make quick decisions based on the available information in the heat of the moment when someone shoots at an ally are human and get things wrong too. Someone needs to be there to make all these decisions and all of us make mistakes. You can't expect people to be perfect just because their decisions/actions are more important - all human beings and fallible human beings. I would hate to be in the shoes of someone making the call of whether or not to take action in a situation like we see in the video. Clearly you would be useless in such a role because you would always opt not to take action. If forced into the role I would do my best and sometimes get it wrong because I am human, but because I would unfairly be held accountable by people like you I would do whatever I could not to be in such a role. Unfortunately, many level headed people would have similar feelings to mine, which means people who are a bit more trigger happy end up in those roles.

    I agree, it is embarrassing for the military to have this video leaked. It probably did almost no good - internally they obviously would have reviewed this event, seen the errors and taken measures to try to have better training and practices. Again, any activity involving human judgement and action involves mistakes, and I think we've all been involved in something at work where one of our mistakes caused a problem, most of us are fortunate enough that our mistakes haven't directly caused anyone to die, but if forced to make literal life and death decisions as a routine part of our jobs, most of us would cause human deaths. If you were to cherry pick your worst ever moment at work, or mine, and display it to the world, it would make either one of us look terrible at our jobs, no matter how good we actually are.

    Can you honestly name any country involved in any military conflict which would not look absolutely terrible if you were to to cherry pick a particularly bad moment on their behalf and show it to the world? The USA would no doubt be among the cleanest militaries in the world, and no doubt theirs is judged more harshly than any other in the world.

    I don't think it was good of Julian Assange to leak this video, although I don't think he should necessarily be punished for it. I think he has done a lot of good in sharing other information. Inevitably, whether or not you agree it is the right thing to do, you have to accept that if you claim credit for hacking confidential military information and making it public, you are committing a crime which you are probably going to be taken to task for. I think he has done a great disservice to himself and the potential good he could have continued to do by leaking something like this. No good will come of it. The military will continue to make mistakes, it will remain one of the cleanest in the world (honestly, if you were a POW, which other major military would be a better captor than the USA's? Literally none in the middle east, obviously, literally none in Asia, if any it would be another western military, most of which are not held to task by being by far the world's largest peace keeper, a role they have been burdened with since they got dragged into WWII), they will just keep a tighter lid on their secrets going forward.

    If this video worries you so much, why are you not outraged by the far, far, far worse sins committed by those you seem to want to defend?
     
  20. kahuna1

    kahuna1

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    How idiotic and delusional can a person be ? We have a new standard from the above.

    Wow
     
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