• Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Is Shorten PM material?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by dutchie, Apr 24, 2012.

Is Shorten PM material?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    21.4%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    78.6%
  1. noco

    noco

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    Overtime is regarded as a penalty rate I am sorry to say as per the link below.

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/penalty-rates-and-allowances

    Penalty rates
    Employees often get a higher pay rate when working:

    • weekends
    • public holidays
    • overtime
    • late nights shifts or
    • early morning shifts.
     
  2. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    You are quoting a response to your earlier argument that workers were getting penalty rates for taking a second job on weekends. That's not overtime. But yeah, overtime rates are a penalty rate but not in the context you posted before.

    I presume you don't agree with penalty rates or other employee allowances?
     
  3. noco

    noco

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    Your presumption is totally wrong.
    I do believe it is wrong having to pay a second job worker at $42 per hour on a public holiday to wash dishes in a restaurant
     
  4. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    In what way? I've seen posts from you condemning penalty rates, long service leave and leave loading.

    Why? If your boss can make money by pulling you away from family time on a public holiday you should be compensated for it.
     
    explod likes this.
  5. noco

    noco

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    Not so much condemning as pointing out how it has added to the cost of manufacturing over the years and the reason why we manufacture very little now in Australia......The reason why Companies have gone over seas...The reason why so many jobs have been lost......So please get your facts right...Don't twist things around to suit your argument.

    And also the reason why some restaurants don't open on public holidays is because of the excessive penalty rates they have to pay. .....So once again workers miss out.
     
  6. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    The workers who miss out are the workers who lose income as a result of imbecilic law changes such as the lowering or removal of penalty rates. So do you have a link or some proof that penalty rates are the reason "many jobs have been lost" as you naively put it? After all our unemployment is still relatively low, ask Malcolm Turnbull - he agrees :)

    As for getting facts right have a look at your previous comments. One moment you're saying it's wrong to pay a second job worker $42 a hour on public holidays and the next you're saying it's wrong to assume you don't agree with penalty rates. Please make up your mind. Either you agree with penalty rates or you don't.

    There you go. With that erroneous comment you've just twisted things around to suit your argument. Is this the lexicon of the elitist right wing movement? Do as you say not as you do? Violating your own standards?

    Bill Shortens' "penalty rate" Christmas message was no more or less political than Malcolm Turnbulls' type of "don't be racist" message reinforcing “harmony” between Australians of different ethnicities and religions. Personally I think both messages were far more decent than Craig Kellys' disparaging and hilarious comments... not to mention your own remarks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  7. noco

    noco

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    From the way you write with your aggressive socialist rhetoric, one would have to believe you are young and naive as to comparisons of current working conditions to that of the 40's. 50's and 60's...Perhaps you were not even born then.

    We once had woolen mills, knitting mills, shoe factories, clothing factories and began making vehicles in the late 40's employing 1000's of workers.....We were almost self sufficient except for oil....We had everything we needed for high employment.

    So I ask you now where have all those factories gone and the reason for their closure?

    The point I was trying make before you got your knickers in a knot, is the fact that the increased cost to those factories is the result of a combination of working conditions imposed upon them by militant unions.
    We once worked a full 40 hours per week which has now been reduced to 38 and in some cases 36.
    We once had two weeks annual leave and now 4 weeks.
    There was no leave loading on annual leave ...we now have 17.5% added.
    There no superannuation scheme...Employers now are compelled to fork out 9.5%
    We now have 6 months full paid maternity leave.
    Overtime penalty rates were time and a half on Saturday morning and double time on Saturday afternoon and Sundays...There no triple time on public holidays.
    The communist dominated unions were constantly creating strikes over trivial matters.

    So the sensible point I am trying to get through to you is the fact the combination of all the above, plus State and Federal Government Red tape, Green tape and demarcations have all added to the cost of manufacturing and the closure of those once thriving factories......So ask you now, where are our shoes, clothing, woolen mills, knitting mills and car industry gone and what do you think has happened to them?

    We now live in a changed world where shops and many other business are open 7 days per week where as before everything shut down at midday on Saturday and Sunday was supposed be a day of rest.
    This where penalty rates comes into play on weekends and Business has to decide whether to add on the cost to consumers and become less competitive or close up during the weekend hours....So this where workers could be missing out on weekend work because of the high cost to be gainfully employed......Whether there is agreement to reduce penalty rates is a decision between employer, employees, the unions and the Fair Work.
    I put it to you, would you sooner have a half a loaf of bread or non at all?.
     
  8. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    They went to countries that pay workers 50 cents an hour. You can't live on that here so no one would want a job in those industries. Sure the militant unions were a factor, but in the area of unskilled labour other countries have a lot more of it than us. The result was inevitable really. But you are always saying that imported stuff is cheaper and we should be thankful for that, so where do you really stand ?
     
  9. noco

    noco

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    I don't know about your statement where I am always saying that imported goods are cheaper and that we should be thankful, that is your story but you are right, they are cheaper and perhaps we should thankful that the price of shoes and clothing we now buy in Australia are less than half the price of the cost made in Australia and one can't complain about the quality....We once had tariffs to protect our industries against cheaper imported goods but those tariffs were abolished firstly by Paul Keating......Not that I agree with tariffs and this where free trade agreements come into play.
     
  10. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    I would rather have food on the table - like most workers. I would also like to have fair family time - like most workers. Trading away family time for work has to be fair. Reducing wages for workers who currently work on weekends for the sole purpose of opening weekends obviously isn't fair on the worker.

    There's never been a truer word spoken when you say we're living in a changed world. Over the last 30 years workers have lost many of their rights and allowances thanks to both sides of politics shifting to the right. It's now a far more capitalistic society, so why would I care if a business opens or closes on a Sunday? That's their choice. As previously mentioned, if your boss can make money by pulling you away from family time on a public holiday you should be compensated for it. If you have a problem with penalty rates, employ your workers on a salary. A no brainer really.

    Factories closing is a result of the lowering of tariffs, increased OH&S red tape, compliance taxes, online retail, removal of taxpayer subsidies and/or the weak population base in this country. Ford & Holden didn't close because of penalty rates. They closed because they failed to sell their large, heavy, fuel thirsty cars to a populace that want smaller, fuel efficient cars. Commodore / Falcon sales figures are a fraction of where they were 20 years ago. And 20 years ago workers had far more rights than they do today.

    The average working week is beyond 40 hours due to the overtime required to keep up with the deregulated trading hours. You've also avoided the issue of salaried workers :)
    .... at the expense of the higher pay rises of the past.
    As above. Payrises are a fraction of what they were 10, 20, 30 years ago.
    Workers are buying their leave loading and super through low payrises.
    Not paid for by the employer. As opposed to the Tony Abbott scheme of taxing business for an over generous PPL system.
    Which is what the electorate voted for prior to, and in 2007. Most people don't agree with this silly idea of turning every day of the week into a Monday :)
    And over the years since these conditions were added, our unemployment went from double figures to less than half today despite the GFC fallout. Now what was your point again? :)
    Which hasn't been in place for 10 years. Strikes are only allowed during EBA negotiations which is what? Once every 2 or 3 years? Can't see the sky falling in.

    A pointless, inaccurate statement. Aggressive says a lot more about your posting style than mine. I will address you the same way you address me so it's your choice as to how polite you want to be.

    Oooh look, a smiley > :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  11. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    One certainly can complain about the quality, they are designed to wear out asap so you need to buy more. This applies to most manufactured goods from China.
     
  12. noco

    noco

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    It is a shame you have a one track left wing socialistic mind and nothing will change or convince you as to the point I have been trying to make so I am afraid we will just to agree to disagree without further discussion on the matter.
     
  13. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    I'm more interested in the topic and irrespective of what I say, Shorten will get the job by default as this Coalition Govt continues to disintegrate. Does that make him PM material? Probably not.

    Smart move on your part noco. If this debate requires a balanced constructive argument I reckon you'll be struggling to post anything at all.

    You're better off just sticking to the anti Shorten articles ad nauseam; here, let me get you started > http://www.theage.com.au/national/i...-alleged-vandalism-spree-20161228-gtisp6.html
     
  14. noco

    noco

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    You are a good troll like Tisme and Rumpole...You are all experts at character assassination under the strick rules of good old Fabians and only believe you are right and everyone else is wrong.....Good luck with your socialist propaganda but you see there is a change coming and you will not like it.
     
  15. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    Thread's not about me, princess. It's about Bill Shorten. Read your browser header.
    By the way, I don't believe you. Especially that bit about "phone call from Bill Shorten" stuff.
    https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/is-shorten-pm-material.24690/page-36#post-924608
    OK so you disagree with my opinion but then stake your credibility on calling me a troll?
    You're making yourself look immature noco. Try something more intelligent, if you can.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  16. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    I wouldn't worry about noco calling you a troll. A lot of people here think he is a troll extraordinaire.

    :D
     
  17. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    Lol. Not worried at all. Just enjoying watching his online self destruction.

    I posted a link to an anti Shorten article released today and I get called a troll. Funny stuff :D
     
  18. Miner

    Miner

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    Let me reword the question to have some intersting brickbats - does labour team in its current form deserve to rule the country ???
     
  19. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    Well, it's always a matter of the "least worst" option. Labor has some good policies in regard to housing affordability and they won't waste money with a useless business tax cut, so toss the coin. :)
     
  20. PZ99

    PZ99 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    My view is... no. No party deserves to win. They have to earn it.
     
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