• Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Hello and welcome to Aussie Stock Forums!

To gain full access you must register. Registration is free and takes only a few seconds to complete.

Already a member? Log in here.

Electric cars?

Discussion in 'Business, Investment and Economics' started by tothemax6, Jan 22, 2011.

Would you buy an electric car?

  1. Already own one

    3 vote(s)
    3.1%
  2. Yes - would definitely buy

    20 vote(s)
    20.8%
  3. Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    44 vote(s)
    45.8%
  4. Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    21 vote(s)
    21.9%
  5. No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    6 vote(s)
    6.3%
  6. No - would never buy one

    5 vote(s)
    5.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. luutzu

    luutzu

    Posts:
    7,956
    Likes Received:
    1,053
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Tesla is at that stage where everything it does could be considered both operating and investing.

    Where to put the expense is just management's decision to claim back R&D subsidies and looking not-so-bad on investor's roadshow.

    I'm obviously no accountant but if I were in the car manufacturing business, I'd classified by first car manufacturing plant as an operating expense rather than an investing activity. I mean, without that plant I wouldn't be able to operate my main activity of manufacturing, right?

    Expanding on that plant, getting rid of perfectly usable robots with better ones for efficiency... Those I'd considered investing.

    I read Buffett saying that if he teaches investing and ask students to value any dot.com company and they come back with a number, he'd flunk them.

    Why? I'm guessing that it's because they're burning cash like it's other people's money, and there's always more of it.

    -------------

    I don't know how Tesla will work out, neither are many other investors, including that guy in the video. But Tesla is trying to change the world, taking on everybody and their politicians... and all from simply using bankers and investors' cash.

    A manufacturing business cannot keep doing that for too long.

    Think about it. Tesla is up against the car manufacturers, their parts suppliers; up against the world's charging networks of refill stations and all those logistic companies; it's up against the oil industry.

    How many jobs, how much money does all that industry have and would be at risk?

    You can't take on all that with investors and bankers cash alone. You'd need the gov't. And the gov't not only has the car, the oil, the supply chains up their azz, they also have voters whose jobs are also at risk.

    Why in the world would any gov't support a factory that's mainly robotics (won't be hiring much, making more idle hands to cause social unrest)...

    Then top that off with car manufacturers all over the world announcing the drive to EV.

    Those guys have the cash, the assets, the experience, the brain power, the logistics, the know-how, the political influence... did I mention they also have positive cash flow (most of the time)?

    Musk better grow up and learn to share the market potential of Tesla with other partners. By the look of it he want to operate that Apple model of excluding everyone else.

    I mean, complaining about Tesla having to be in a JV if it want to operate in China? Come on Elon, if you want 100% ownership, how will the Chinese steal your ideas and IPs? How will the princlings make their billions? How will the Communist Party get you to influence certain policies in Washington?
     
  2. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

    Posts:
    7,001
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    So you don't count the money being spend to build a new factory and to expand another existing one as investing???

    I should use you as my accountant, using your theory I could write off the cost of building a new investment property as an expense on this years income tax, rather than be forced to depreciate it over 40 years.

    Yet if I go and redo the kitchen with a nicer one that raises the rent by $5 a week you will want to count that as an investment, So on my books the total value of the rental property will appear as just the cost of the new kitchen.

    I can see you are right in one thing, you are definitely not an accountant.

    As I said before, your cynicism bores me, so don't be offended if my replies to you are limited in the future, you just seem to have a warped view of everything, everything you look at seems to be out to get you or con you, or rip people off, I am not interested in cynics.
     
  3. Humid

    Humid

    Posts:
    764
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Nothing beats the sound of a flat plane crank under load
     
  4. Humid

    Humid

    Posts:
    764
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Will there be some sort of electrical car tax to make up for the lost fuel tax?
     
  5. luutzu

    luutzu

    Posts:
    7,956
    Likes Received:
    1,053
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    How do you not have any "cynicism" investing in public companies?

    We're talking about corporate managers whose mandate is to make money first and foremost. We're not talking about kindergarten teachers or nurses man.

    And are my "cynicism" misplaced or without evidence? If not, then maybe it's just an approximate of the actual world we live in.

    But anyway, if you think people are all honest and out there to deliver what they promised and what you paid for... try and have that investment property of yours built. Manage it yourself and see how people work.
     
  6. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

    Posts:
    7,001
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Eventually when they hit some critical mass in the future, until then the government would probably avoid it to help induce more electric cars.

    Although, Electric cars would still be paying into the system via car rego etc just not quite as much without the fuel tax.

    Also, there are other economic benefits to electrical cars that may offset other government spending, eg the government spends Billions related to air pollution heath problems, if electric cars reduced this, the benefit may be greater than the road tax.

    Not to mention the trade deficit, using our own Solar, wind, Natural gas and coal rather than importing oil would have benefits for the trade deficit and also creating more local jobs and investment here.

    We discussed it back on page 16 of this thread.

    at the time I wrote this
     
    Humid likes this.
  7. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

    Posts:
    7,001
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Dude, there is a big difference between healthy skepticism and cynicism.

    I consider myself a skeptic, but I can't stand cynics

    Yes, often you haven't even researched the facts behind the situation.


    Never have I said that, Although you seem to believe everyone and every company is dishonest.
     
  8. Joules MM1

    Joules MM1 ....everything has an art

    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    560
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
  9. Joules MM1

    Joules MM1 ....everything has an art

    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    560
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a421&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

    BERLIN (Reuters) - The German automotive industry must invest heavily in electric car technology and develop battery production facilities in Europe to keep up with global competitors, Economy Minister Peter Altmaier said in a newspaper interview published on Monday.

    German minister to carmakers: Invest in electric cars or lose out
     
  10. Wysiwyg

    Wysiwyg Everyone wants money

    Posts:
    8,424
    Likes Received:
    260
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
  11. CanOz

    CanOz Home runs feel good, but base hits pay bills!

    Posts:
    11,529
    Likes Received:
    484
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Why would anyone manufacture anything in Australia?? Or better yet, why would anyone invest in anyone wanting to manufacture anything in Australia??
     
  12. Wysiwyg

    Wysiwyg Everyone wants money

    Posts:
    8,424
    Likes Received:
    260
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    The costs too high you think?
     
    CanOz likes this.
  13. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

    Posts:
    13,195
    Likes Received:
    2,777
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
  14. Joules MM1

    Joules MM1 ....everything has an art

    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    560
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    flying cars ...need a carport

     
    tech/a likes this.
  15. tech/a

    tech/a No Ordinary Duck

    Posts:
    19,082
    Likes Received:
    2,984
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    This ——is——-The future and they may well be solar driven
    But I think Hydrogen.
     
  16. Joules MM1

    Joules MM1 ....everything has an art

    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    560
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
  17. noirua

    noirua

    Posts:
    9,547
    Likes Received:
    279
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    I did have an LPG converted vehicle for quite a long time. Quite surprised one day when stopped from going into a car park. Seems there are also restrictions from going through some tunnels. Some vans had gas containers on the roof and that was before World War 2.

    Electricity to power vehicles is 'old hat' it's nothing new at all. The first one was built in 1882 in Germany.

    [​IMG]
    The "Elektromote", the world's first trolleybus,[6] in Berlin, Germany, 1882
     
  18. noirua

    noirua

    Posts:
    9,547
    Likes Received:
    279
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
  19. Joules MM1

    Joules MM1 ....everything has an art

    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    560
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    horse and cart revolution will bring problems of its own

    the stench from fecal matter in the streets, the lack of farriers, the lack of forgers to make enough shoes, the lack of trainers, what to do with dead beasts that break down in the street, not enough wheel repair shops

    of course, on the plus side: more jobs for wheel repair shops, farriers, more basic sanitation jobs, steel forging, but, hey, let's not have any sense of value or optimism about this transitionary phase

     
  20. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

    Posts:
    13,195
    Likes Received:
    2,777
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    $85,000 ? And the rest !

    You may get a 'standard' car for that , but the options to make it liveable will kill your bank balance.
     
Loading...

Share This Page