Death Penalty

[Happy]

I am at least intrigued by how people react to death penalty topic.

Many are shocked how Australian Police could condemn to death recent Bali 9 syndicate, now looks more like 8, possibly less.
People are also shocked why Australian Government doesn’t move Heaven and Earth to secure release of Singapore case.

My argument is that people touching stuff that brings misery and death should be stopped.

Funny, the same people think that in extreme cases death penalty is justified, but as soon as specific cases are discussed, they see human beings only.

 

[Profitseeker]

Re: Death penalty – not advice, do your own research

There is a big sign at the bali airport that says if you import or export drugs you will be killed. You can balme the police or disscuss whether the death penalty is right or wrong. But in the case of the Bali nine, they are in their predicament because of their own stupidity.

 

[Joe Blow]

Disclaimer removed from thread title.

Happy, none of us can violate securities law by talking about the death penalty. :

 

[Happy]

Joe, that was severe Blow to my post, but if you are happy I am happy too.

 

[Profitseeker]

Perhaps I should actually add that I don't actually believe in the detah penalty though. I just believe that people should more aware of the consequence of their decisions.

 

[mit]

I believe that they are two very different incidents in the Bali 9 case the AFP knew before hand that they were going to smuggle heroin but did not stop the people in Australia and instead told the Indonesian authorities. This could be taken as possibly sentencing the Bali 9 to death instead of Australian Justice.

In the Singapore case there was no foreknowledge.


Although, it is very true that they all should have known that they personally faced the death penalty.

MIT

 

[Smurf1976]

I am opposed to the death penalty for the simple reason that there is always the possibility, however remote, that someone has been falsely convicted. At least if they are sent to prison instead of killed they can be freed in the event that new evidence emerges which proves their innocence.

 

[Profitseeker]

I agree Smurf. Heard a stat that 1 in 5 people that got the death penalty in the states is not guilty. Could be an old stat though cause it was related to the electric chair.

 

[kerosam]

maybe australia could take up death penalty for drugs possessions... imagine how clean our streets would be.

 

[Happy]

We seem to be preoccupied with the idea that innocent life could be lost due to death penalty, and yet we have 500 innocent lives lost in traffic accidents (out of over 1000 lives lost every year on Australian roads statistically 50% are at fault, rest not).

And we manage to live with it, way of life, sort of bad luck.

Also we could exclude “reasonable doubt cases”, “cases with circumstantial evidence” and maybe few more.

 

[Milk Man]

We seem to be preoccupied with the idea that innocent life could be lost due to death penalty, and yet we have 500 innocent lives lost in traffic accidents (out of over 1000 lives lost every year on Australian roads statistically 50% are at fault, rest not).

And we manage to live with it, way of life, sort of bad luck.

Also we could exclude “reasonable doubt cases”, “cases with circumstantial evidence” and maybe few more.

Pretty sure more die from staf infections. Its almost completely preventable by doctors and nurses using alcohol handwash between patients and better cleaning procedures. Kill our hospital management before bad drivers. Oh wait you cant use revenue raising tactics on them like speed cameras; carry on killin' boys.

 

[Smurf1976]

We seem to be preoccupied with the idea that innocent life could be lost due to death penalty, and yet we have 500 innocent lives lost in traffic accidents (out of over 1000 lives lost every year on Australian roads statistically 50% are at fault, rest not).

And we manage to live with it, way of life, sort of bad luck.

Also we could exclude “reasonable doubt cases”, “cases with circumstantial evidence” and maybe few more.

Agreed about traffic accidents. But why unnecessarily take an innocent life via the death penalty when there is an alternative punishment (prison) available?

 

[Mofra]

Given we have a system that is (supposedly anyways) based on rehabilitation and not retribution, the death penalty would in essence cause a major rethink of the principles of justice in this country.

If you take cases like Martin Bryant (who had an IQ of 66) we have people commiting crimes who don't understand consequences, so increasing the penalties for violent crimes would not act as a deterrant.

 

[Julia]

Given we have a system that is (supposedly anyways) based on rehabilitation and not retribution, the death penalty would in essence cause a major rethink of the principles of justice in this country.

If you take cases like Martin Bryant (who had an IQ of 66) we have people commiting crimes who don't understand consequences, so increasing the penalties for violent crimes would not act as a deterrant.

Absolutely agree, Mofra. Our jails contain a great percentage of people with a mental illness or who simply are not adequately equipped to cope with normal everyday life, whether that is as a result of their genes, poor parenting/modelling, or often something as simple as poverty. They go to jail often because of unpaid fines. Obviously, these people are not going to be candidates for the death penalty, but all these punishments are simply gradations along a continuum.

I see quite a number of newly released prisoners and about 10% of these people say they received genuine help and rehabilitation within the justice system. The rest have endured the gamut of abuse and violence, usually starting with rape on entry, and a number have said they would rather be dead than be brutalised in this way again. So perhaps imprisonment is not necessarily a more attractive option as far as offenders are concerned.

I also hear the stories of victims in the crimes these prisoners have committed and their lives will never be the same either.

I have no answers.

Julia

 

[bvbfan]

I like the 3 strikes and your out policy but go a bit further than jail.
Like the Saudi action of chopping of hands, if they don't have them then its going to be much much harder for these criminals to keep committing these crimes.
Crimes like robbery, theft, assault etc

 

[Happy]

I find it hard to believe that with modern surveillance devices we are unable to track illegal activities inside punitive/rehabilitation centres.

That we are unable to identify gangs, perpetrators, offenders, isolate them and extend their 'rehabilitation'.

We are talking about limited area with limited access to different places at certain times, so where is the problem?

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

I find it hard to believe that with modern surveillance devices we are unable to track illegal activities inside punitive/rehabilitation centres.

That we are unable to identify gangs, perpetrators, offenders, isolate them and extend their 'rehabilitation'.

We are talking about limited area with limited access to different places at certain times, so where is the problem?

We are too soft, that's the problem. If they are 100% found guilty, no question of innocence whatsoever, sure get rid of them. Prisons don't work, don't rehabilitate and only add to the burden of government. Criminals do bad things but are always given their rights at the expense of their victims. Shame on society for letting it get this bad.

I bet I get roasted for this comment.

 

[Happy]

A lot of people make crime their career; supported by unemployment benefit they seem to be happy with that.

Lack of opportunity excuse doesn’t really go well with me in a country as Australia.
Many kids just fall into too easy trap, of not having to do anything if they can, and they do it.

Many run away from home, make up a story or two to get special benefit and often furnished flat.

From one thing to another, from unchecked animal cruelty to violence against other humans, from stealing to armed robbery to murder rape to name the few more scary.

Snake, I don’t think that these days you’ll get roasted as much as you would few years or decades ago, when we all were do-gooders.

Now patience is running thin and cases as violent rape-murder get the nod from I could suspect probably not a minority any more.
Time will come that pressure will increase and we will be asked in referendum to re-introduce the death penalty for some cases.

In a meantime, ‘out-sourcing death penalty’ is a crafty move in my opinion anyway.

 

[Smurf1976]

I certainly think that we need to do a lot more to look after the victims of crime.

Vandalism is a classic case where this applies. It might only seem like a broken letterbox or wrecked car but when it gets to the point of not one but 10 or more sleepless nights in a row due to the need to be "on patrol" of your own property then that is going way too far. What happens to the unfortunate victim who loses their job as a result, falls asleep at the wheel and kills someone etc?

The VICTIM gets punished in this case. Something needs to be done and I think it starts with no more "slap on the wrist" for criminals. You break it, you automatically PAY for it in full. And a good portion of police to be allocated to catching these :swear:.

 

[amohonour]

Question ever been accused of something you didnt do and no-one believes you? I have. That in itself is enough reason to not have a death penalty, imho.