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5G and Autonomous Vehicles

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by fiftyeight, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. fiftyeight

    fiftyeight

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    Hopefully one of the smart people can point me to some good resources that explain the obvious to me. Every 5G article I read talks about AVs requiring the super low latency provided by 5G.

    I was under the impression companies like Tesla are working towards a self contained 'general driving' system that apart from updates required no access to networks to operate. Navigation would need updates, but not anything that is super low latency.

    I am missing something obvious here
     
  2. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    One of the main issues is for autonomous operation, cars have to interact with each other in real time, interact with traffic management devices like intersection lights and respond to unexpected events like people, animals etc stepping out.
    The data transfer required will be massive, also their can't afford to be any latency or blackspots, 5G has the bandwidth and speed to cope apparently.
    Well that's my understanding of it.
     
  3. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

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    I would imagine the future of fully automated vehicles would be highly interconnected vehicles communicating with each other and operating as a swarm.

    Eg, a fallen branch is reported to vehicles behind.

    I could even imagine a system where red lights and stop signs were obsolete.
     
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  4. bellenuit

    bellenuit

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    They seemed to have reached that advanced stage in Bali many years ago.
     
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  5. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    That would be a system highly vulnerable to hacking I would think.

    If we are going to have "autonomous" cars I would think that the software would be self contained, using internal measuring devices like radar to determine safe following and stopping distances and making decisions internally using AI software rather than relying on external data for critical decision making.

    Of course, it could still use mapping services like Google Maps, but with all the data stored internally rather than "in the cloud" in case the service goes down.
     
  6. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    Autonomous radar is already being used for cruise control, the issue is more about cars coming from multiple directions, and interacting information between each other as to priority decision making, prioritised right of way etc.
    Each car will be talking to all the other cars in the immediate vicinity.

    https://www.futurithmic.com/2019/01/30/role-of-5g-autonomous-vehicles/
    This is where the NBN nodes, could very well become central, to the introduction of autonomous cars as coverage is critical to the safe operation.
    As was said a long time ago, it will be quite easy to install aerial and repeater equipment in the node boxes, which in turn will overcome the black spot issues to a great degree.
     
  7. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    The potential for disaster in the event of system failure would be very high IMO.
     
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  8. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    I think that is one of the reasons the Government's is worried about Huawei in the mix, the amount of intellectual and process control reach 5G is going to have, could leave the Country open to a chaotic system attack.
    The last thing you want is a system installed, that has a back door.
     
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  9. moXJO

    moXJO menace to society

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    Theres a group in my area protesting the release of 5g due to the emf dangers. Anyone have knowledge on it?
     
  10. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

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    The potential for disaster with the current human driver system is something we deal with every day.
     
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  11. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    I wouldn't have thought it is any more dangerous, than any other transmitted signal, I think it will still be directly proportional to the transmitter power and proximity.
    The more transmitters there are, the less distance the transmission has to cover, the less power required for the signal. IMO
     
  12. fiftyeight

    fiftyeight

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    Yeah this was kind of I was getting at. Autonomous for me is independent and self contained. 'Additional' features such as interconnection between cars for improved performance is nice, but is additional.

    Hmmm is 5G being overstated :cautious:???

    Unless I can somehow bundle all my current data packages and save money, I have zero reason for technical improvements of 5G.
     
  13. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    It's much more of a risk with an interconnected system that goes wrong rather than a group of autonomous humans making independent decisions.
     
  14. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

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    I don’t think so, sure there may be risk that the system gets hacked and one day a disaster might happen, but the human drivers are killing and injuring each other every day.
     
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  15. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

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    I think there will been multiple levels.

    Driver assistance features, like the current Tesla autopilot can be self contained.

    But, if you want fully automated, eg all passengers sleeping on a Sydney to Brisbane drive, that would require more interconnection.
     
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  16. fiftyeight

    fiftyeight

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    If you require every car communicating with every other car, 100% saturation, we will never be sleeping cruising down the freeway.

    Tesla are shooting for level 5 with no 5G. If they get there or not is another question.

    https://www.lightreading.com/mobile...as-big-autonomous-driving-event/d/d-id/751021
     
  17. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

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    Google maps etc already provide live data, for traffic and offer alternative routes as you drive etc, I don’t think every car needs to communicate with every other car, but some live communication to a central system would have loads of benefits.

    A lot of stuff would be in house, but live traffic data, safety situations, etc definitely have a place.

    Also I think in the future with complete automation traffic lights will be obsolete, and vehicles will just pass through intersections without stoping.
     
  18. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    If a giant company like Boeing can't handle an autonomous system in their B737 (in a relatively simple scenario like single aircraft control) , how is an interconnected system of vehicles going to be made foolproof ?

    Who is going to write the software, will they be liable for any crashes , what if the company goes broke etc.

    There are so many ifs and buts that I can't see a reliable system for the next 20 years at least.
     
  19. fiftyeight

    fiftyeight

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    Agree with the above. But my point was I am pretty sure it will possible to sleep while cruising down the HWY with 4G.

    Other benefits and efficiencies associated with 'swarm' technologies are decades away as it would require 100% of vehicles connected.

    I think my initial thoughts are holding up, the current push for L5 autonomy will place little demand on 5G infrastructure. It is just more hype for 5G
     
  20. Value Collector

    Value Collector Have courage, and be kind.

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    There is also the possibility of fleets of trucks being controlled remotely.

    Eg. On auto pilot for long haul highway runs, but then having remote pilots available to take control at certain critical stages.

    A bit like how the drone missions in Afghanistan were piloted by people in las vegas
     
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