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Trainee prop trading options, prep, credibility in Australia - Outsider Research

Discussion in 'General Investment and Economics' started by OmegaTrader, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    I am starting this thread to put my outsider research on the prop firms in Australia.My main focus is on trainee options and credibility.

    I found that when looking at this path that information is fragmented in all different places, there is different opinions, self interest and sometimes just bs hyperbole online.

    Any insiders or past experiences would be good.

    I will hopefully have some of my own experiences to reflect on in the future.

    I will attach information soon and let it speak for its self. I will strive to be impartial and also post some links/access to preparation materials that others have suggested online.


    watch this space

    cheers

    Omega
     
  2. mjim

    mjim Well-Known Member

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    Hi
    I am also interested in same subject
    I only heard of Genesis and Propex
    and sure there are very high end one/ Bank owned where you need to be top in maths / be young etc and other
    other scale some outfits pretending as prop but the real business model is 100 pays $300-500 TEST fee and hope 99 fail
    Is there a middle ground? where mature people can have a chance with some capital of own
    In US for pairs trading I heard about Bright Trading ( but they want series 7 exam + being Non US 100 K deposit as compared to 50 K for local)
     
  3. jmg86

    jmg86 Member

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    Your better off viewing the Prop shop programs as a trial with the promise of funding than training. Beyond some basic market fundamentals and lessons on how to use cqg and TT your not going to be taught anything earth shattering.

    The real benefit comes from the consistent screen time your forced to go through and thus hopefully develop some view of how markets trade. If you show some promise, you will go beyond whats available for your average retail trader very quickly. If not, you at least have 200+ hours of considered screen time to frame your own trading around so you can try again down the track.
     
  4. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    mjim thankyou for your interest.

    jmg thank you for your opinion

    Do you have any experience or information in prop trading that you could share in terms of options credible operators and preparation?

    Have you applied for prop programs? etc
     
  5. mjim

    mjim Well-Known Member

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    In AUS have heard of Genesis and Propex
    Other "so called" prop firms ( the dodgy model) market themselves sin AUS but probably will be shut down by ASIC
     
  6. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    I will attach the information and let the chips fall where they may.

    Make your own opinion.

    Be warned I will attach a lot of information :bazooka:
     
  7. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

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    You are most certainly correct about dodgy offerings pretending to be prop shops, but I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for ASIC to do anything about it.

    I had a lengthy email exchange with one such provider.

    I was offered an opportunity to do their proprietary trading course provided, I pay a hefty (5 figure) tuition fee.

    I politely asked if they would allow me to do their course and then reimburse themselves from the commissions I earn after commencing proprietary trading with their funds. My, oh my! The ensuing excuses were lamer than a legless millipede!

    I then raised my concerns about having witnessed a misrepresentation, by one of their agents, of the risks associated with the trading of leveraged financial instruments. What ensued was an almost week long exchange of email correspondence ending with a reluctant acknowledgment of error accompanied with yet another lame (and also misleading) excuse offered as justification.

    The disturbing thing about this firm, is that, years later, they're still operational and making a fortune selling educational material that is misleading to the point of being financially dangerous.
     
  8. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    I will start with Propex:

    below is initial research more to come:



    Cursory information


    This is what their current website says:

    Propex Derivatives is a renowned and well-established proprietary trading firm with offices in Sydney, the Gold Coast and Singapore. At Propex, we specialise in providing capital for established traders as well as training and funding junior traders. With a supportive culture and successful track record of growth, today we focus on futures, foreign exchange, equities and commodities.

    I have found that Propex has an online presence.

    Their website: https://propex.com.au/

    A seek advertisement https://www.seek.com.au/job/31719546




    View attachment Trainee Proprietary Traders - Sydney Job in Sydney - SEEK.pdf


    List of employees

    Below is a list of employees available freely on linkedin - that work for Propex.

    I have found 33

    This will give readers an idea of the company, management and also some junior members mention the strategies that they use and the skills that are valued.

    View attachment Propex_Linkedin_employees.zip


    Interesting to see that some former trainee traders from Aliom (now is Genesis) have moved to Propex.

    Note: some work in Singapore, some in NSW e.t.c

    Post more tomorrow

    ....
     
  9. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Cynic for your honest opinion and experience.

    This is why I started this thread, to give realistic advice and information in one thread. So whoever reads this thread will save googling on all different sites.

    Can you please detail the company name and details for other members, otherwise if you are reluctant for fear of repercussions

    I will research it online if you give me the company name.....

    thanks
     
  10. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

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    My preference is not to explicitly disclose the name they currently operate under(they changed it in recent years) for fear of attracting another lawsuit to this forum. I have, of course, retained all of my email correspondence as a precautionary measure.

    Suffice to say that they originated in the UK and their "educational" services are predominantly focussed on the forex market.
     
  11. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    I understand

    I think I know who this is. Won't push it.

    It's a shame we can't tell the truth in 2016, almost anonymously on a forum...

    hmmm....


    Anyway people can tell the $5000 schemes are mainly bs.

    I will focus more on the trainee and general research side etc

    Thanks anyway
     
  12. banco

    banco Well-Known Member

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    Tom Dante (former prop trader at Futex) has a series of webinars for sale (proceeds go to charity and there's a link to a third party website where you can actually see they've gone to charity). If you got all 30+ of them you'd probably be up for close to $1000 AUD but he has a swing trading module and a day trading module so you could just focus on what interests you.
     
  13. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    Website of Propex

    https://propex.com.au/

    or pdf for offline a bit heavy on the download- sorry



    View attachment Propex Website - Copy.zip
    View attachment Propex Website - Copy - Copy.zip
    View attachment Propex Website - Copy - Copy - Copy.zip


    Interesting readiness quiz - multi choice questions.

    Nice novelty

    I purposely tried to fail it the answer was

    You got 0 of 14 possible points.
    Not bad. Why not try some exercise to stimulate that brain and try again?


    hahaah

    will try to download answer pool later

    tried for real got 10/14

    not that good ... better than nothing

    You got 10 of 14 possible points.
    Congratulations! You may have the brainpower needed to be a Propex trader. Why not apply now for our comprehensive traininng program in Sydney, Gold Coast or Singapore?


    tomorrow will post some information about the background of head honchos and company info etc
     
  14. CanOz

    CanOz Every day above ground is a stellar day!

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    Propex helped create one of Asia's most successful bond traders. This guy recently picked up a whopping 7 figures in one day trading the Aussies. He's pretty famous in real trader circles and quite often responsible for moving the market in the bonds.....that could be you one day Omega!
     
  15. RowanC

    RowanC Active Member

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    In terms of the training both of these firms provide they are based around the work of Guy Bower.

    Guy was the head of training at Propex for a number of years and now I believe works with what is now Genesis on their training program.

    He's very legit a good guy, and has his own website/training program also.

    I haven't used his trading courses site as such but in terms of content it would be very similar to what you would get at a prop for obvious reasons.

    http://guybower.com

    But just to add to this, I think the value of being at a prop shop is the pure screen time that you get and also the ability to casually chat to other traders. It's about being in a successful environment.
     
  16. CanOz

    CanOz Every day above ground is a stellar day!

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    I agree totally about Guy. He's a solid dude and he's been good to me, he helped me get an interview with Genesis. I did a few of his courses as well, the site is good value I reckon.
     
  17. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    Canoz you gotta stop this ahaha




    Yeah Rowan that is why I try to apply eventually+ guy bowers resources will come up later in the resources/prep I will attach
     
  18. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    History/headhonchos/ Company info

    Max Whitby is the founding owner and managing director according to Propex website


    Attached in as article with a bit about him.

    View attachment Max_Whitby.pdf

    by nswroa (NSW racehorse owners)..... 2 Dec 09 14:56

    Interesting a bit.

    Do trainees get to ride his horse lol... that sounds really wrong haha

    He set up LQUAY - a futures broker---- in 1991 and sold it in 2005 according to the article.


    Lets see what Asic says

    A cursory search for Lquay and also for Propex


    View attachment LQuay Company Search.zip
    View attachment Propex Company Search.zip




    Asic says they exist, that helps


    PROPEX DERIVATIVES PTY LTD

    is the company name listed on the website


    Curious ownership structure and how many times the name has changed

    Now is PROPEX 24 PTY LTD

    was:

    PROPEX HOLDINGS PTY LTD, PROPEX SECURITIES PTY LTD, A.C.N. 009 199 553 PTY LIMITED, L QUAY FUTURES BROKERS PTY. LIMITED, BRINCKLEY PTY. LTD.

    PROPEX SINGAPORE PTY LTD is there too.

    Why incorporate in Australia???

    I wonder if Propex mortgages or finance are related?? Maybe not.


    Tomorrow some aspects of the trainee program, forums opinions and resources to try and prepare.

    Then look at Aliom...
     
  19. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    Aspects of trainee program

    Basically the website outline the program

    https://propex.com.au/trainee-traders


    First you apply online

    https://propex.com.au/trainee-traders/apply-now

    If you get trough then a week of learning followed by
    two more weeks of online training

    Then two weeks of sim trading.

    Then interview

    Then

    In-house training continues for another six to eight weeks before you move into a live trading account.

    Then you die :dead: haha

    Here is a good summary I found online although it is a bit older but still similar I think

    View attachment Trainee Trader FAQ.pdf




    Forum opinions

    These are always mixed



    Obviously look on aussiestock forums

    http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11946
    http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11988


    Other forums I won't post here just google that.

    Glassdoor not enough info some ok reviews






    Resources and preparation

    is longer than I thought so another post....
     
  20. OmegaTrader

    OmegaTrader Well-Known Member

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    Preparation

    I have asked some questions on the forums

    http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31363

    http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11988&page=25

    Basically the advice is

    Practice mental maths

    Have a demo/ micro account CQG and TT trader are mentioned

    Practice spread trading mainly on interest rate securities

    General job advice, how to interview, interests, interest in trading, experience/s etc etc

    The other advice is on the Propex website.

    Read the guide

    Demo again

    and look at CME, ASX and SGX resources.

    Resources This is quite limited sorry


    Guy Bower Website and youtube



    spread training

    taken from the mentioned forums

    http://rajenkapadia.wix.com/tradingthespread

    A book by Stephen Aikin called Trading STIR Futures:....

    NO BS day trading and Jigsaw trading seem to be loosely related to Guy Bower

    google haha

    that is all I have for the moment.
     
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