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Tools used by top discretionary traders

Discussion in 'Trading/Investing Resources' started by Gringotts Bank, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank Well-Known Member

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    One word - meditation. Just a few snippets to get you interested. The research support for meditation is overwhelmingly positive on multiple levels. The forth bullet point includes an exercise to do with a chart.

    • Goldman Sachs employs a woman named Elizabeth Sudler to teach meditation to traders.
    • Ray Dalio (Bridgewater) has been meditating for over 40 years.
     
  2. captain black

    captain black Well-Known Member

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    It's not a "structured" form of meditation but I'll often start the day with a paddle or bushwalk. The avatar picture in my profile is my favourite spot to go and sit. I often trade the ES in the early morning but when I'm not I'll head down to this spot just on sunrise. It's a 5 minute drive and a 10 minute paddle. It's a lagoon that's off the main river and is always full of birds.

    The action of paddling a kayak is quite meditative as well. I've been going to this spot for about 35 years. I also have the picture as a background on all my monitors/laptops.

    Like with trading, different things work for different people, I've always found it a great way to clear the mind and keep things in perspective.

    Katarapko-May2015_02.JPG
     
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  3. Trembling Hand

    Trembling Hand Can be found on the bid

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    They also employ a lady to push a tea trolley with cakes. Should I do that too? :D Also not too sure how many discretionary traders are left at any of the IB
     
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  4. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank Well-Known Member

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    You know I know you know what's up. And yes, employ a tea lady if it helps you get in the zone.
     
  5. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank Well-Known Member

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  6. Trembling Hand

    Trembling Hand Can be found on the bid

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    Wouldn't it be of more use to have a thread "Tools used to become a top discretionary trader".

    You have to be careful about confirmation bias when looking at causation and success. Some of the biggest talent factories have woeful facilities. Some of the leading countries in various performance fields produce proportional large success in spite of a low level of overall development compared to other countries.

    Could one fool oneself in being occupied with vague trivialities endlessly to distract yourself from the fact that you are doing it to run from the real work and reality?
     
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  7. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank Well-Known Member

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    Correlation is not causation, and proof of causation is almost always impossible to determine in any field of research. That aside, quality decision making [and return performance] in trading is highly influenced by fear and greed.
    Just one study. There's many out there.
    www.traderslaboratory.com/.../8590d1226866130-emotions-while-trading-aerpub.pdf
     
  8. CanOz

    CanOz Every day above ground is a stellar day!

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    Stoping by to check out the new site?

    Did you find your historical hkfe data?
     
  9. DeepState

    DeepState Multi-Strategy, Quant and Fundamental

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    Almost finished reading "Tools of Titans" by Tim Ferris. It would be easier to count the number of incredible people in this compendium who did not meditate, or pursue another similar activity, as part of their daily ritual. Meditation or some form of mindfulness looks about as fundamental to these people as exercise.

    Many have a very structured routine in the morning. A set of steps that gets them up and in to their peak zone. It's deliberate. Meditation is, for some, one part. Exercise in the morning features highly. There are all sorts of beliefs about nutrition and some other rituals to increase robustness to adversity (like living on next to no money for a week every quarter).

    These may not be sufficient to create outstanding performance in some field, like trading. However, sure seems like a sensible way of bulding some basics to get your body, mind and spirit in to the state to create what you can from a day.

    Also, there seems to be a set of books these people read that is beyond random. I think I might make it the basis of my reading list in the early part of this year. It looks interesting.
     
  10. Trembling Hand

    Trembling Hand Can be found on the bid

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    The steps to success are an endlessly complex task to try and unravel. Most of the truly outstanding ones in business and trading were first movers. Have a look at any rich list or the Market Wizards series of books.

    One thing that is rarely pushed in books/pop culture etc on the paths to success is response rates. When you look at any group of elites in the performance field you are looking at people who have found a niche that they for whatever reason improve more than the average population for any give amount of effort. Year after year they are pulling away from the average and no matter what the 'average' does they cannot match that level of improvement. Its well know in talent identification in sports that you can prescribe a certain load and test after it and you get nonresponders, avg responders and then high responders. As a talent identifier you are only interested in the high responders. Sitting in a classroom learning something new its clear that the above applies too. Some people get sh!t quickly, others take time and the rest will never get it.

    I've been from time to time in all three groups. The trick I reckon is not to waste your life being a non-responder...... Just move on to the next thing.... fast.
     
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  11. DeepState

    DeepState Multi-Strategy, Quant and Fundamental

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    Was this guy talking about Writing or Trading?



    I am never going to be an Olympic pole vaulter no matter what ML algo anyone creates or however many Tony Robbins books tell me that I can.

    Of all the market wizards and sensational wealth creators, could we have reliably picked them from a crowd of 1,000 two years before they embarked on this course of prosperity?

    I have worked with sensational discretionary investors (not traders). Less than 10 in total, they would be worth collectively near 1bn today. I can't pick much which was in common beyond being extremely dedicated to the craft and what seemed to be an unreasonable degree of self belief. Most of them started their super businesses at a time when their track records were utterly appalling. They should have starved...how can you plausibly launch a boutique when your numbers are bottom of the table? By pole vaulter standards, they were diving under the bar and straight in to the mat. But here they are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  12. skyQuake

    skyQuake Well-Known Member

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    Not with that attitude! Just visualize and believe in yourself :)


    I think dedication to craft and self belief are pre-requisites rather than the magic sauce. In the ranks of those who didn't make it (thanks to survivorship bias), how many worked just as hard with nothing to show?


    I love this. However much harder in practice for say people with 'real' jobs
     
  13. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank Well-Known Member

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    Let's stick to the science rather than guessing what influences disc. trading success.

    From the article quoted above.

    x.jpg.png
     
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  14. Wysiwyg

    Wysiwyg Everyone wants money

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    Goes without saying this practice is discouraged in Northern Australia. :eek:

    ////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

    The eye of providence says you have to pay for their tools.
    http://www.discotrading.com/
     
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  15. skyQuake

    skyQuake Well-Known Member

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    Definitely agree with this, though how far it will affect an established discretionary trader with a solid playbook is my question.
    When its the same trade taken a thousand times before, P/L swings just become 'whatevs'
     
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  16. captain black

    captain black Well-Known Member

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    :laugh:

    I have the occasional emu or red kangaroo give me a fright when I'm out walking and a few snakes swimming past when I'm paddling but thankfully we don't get any salties down here :eek:
     
  17. Trembling Hand

    Trembling Hand Can be found on the bid

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    Err that study is hardly good science. Its from students doing a 5 week course on how to trade. Thats a long way from "Tools used by top discretionary traders" no matter what you you wanna look at it.
     
  18. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank Well-Known Member

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    You wouldn't do an experiment like that on experienced traders because such traders would find it impossible to extricate themselves from their personal trading history. Experienced traders would be adding all sorts of trading rules unconsciously. So it's a very good experiment, imo. The whole idea is to isolate emotional reactivity and make the trading set ups standardized as much as possible.

    I don't believe such an experiment could ever be carried out on experienced traders, unless they were told they could only trade say the 10-period MA cross [entry and exit], and leave it them which crosses to take and which to leave. Even then, most would be looking at all sorts of other confirmations within the chart, adding uncontrolled variables.

    A different study design could be performed with experienced traders, by simply adding meditation and observing what happens to the group profits before and after. Then you'd need to corroborate that obviously.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  19. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't you naturally expect people who are performing well to be less emotional?
     
  20. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank Well-Known Member

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    I would expect that, but it's good to have some solid evidence. Since meditation is known to reduce emotional reactivity better than any other technique I know of, there's the reason for the thread.

    [edit] Oh you mean as an effect... No I wouldn't expect that. I would expect most people to be pleased by winning and annoyed at losing.
     
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