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The West has lost its freedom of speech

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by dutchie, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. dutchie

    dutchie Well-Known Member

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    My respect to the victims of the Islamic terrorist attack on the journalists of the Charlie Hebdo newspaper.

    My condolences to all their families.
     
  2. Tink

    Tink Well-Known Member

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  3. DB008

    DB008 Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    Sadly, Islam has won.
     
  4. pixel

    pixel Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    I strongly disagree:
    It's not "Islam" that has committed these atrocities, but a bunch of extremist nutters.
    And they will only have "won" if we let them dictate how we react to their evil ideology, which may be based on an interpretation of parts of the Qur'an, but is definitely not shared by "all Muslims".
     
  5. banco

    banco Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    I think you'll find that a very large % of muslims would support laws that prohibited the kinds of cartoons that the French magazine published.
     
  6. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    Maybe a large % of Christians would want the same, as that magazine lampooned all religion not just Islam, but they have to learn that the same system that supports freedom of religion also supports freedom of speech. One without the other is not acceptable.
     
  7. Calliope

    Calliope Well-Known Member

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    This atrocity should finally put paid to the notion in France and the rest of Europe that this "evil idealogy" can co-exist with the values held by Western democracies. Brendan O'Neill,editor of spiked writes;

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...k-day-for-europe/story-e6frg6so-1227177920577
     
  8. banco

    banco Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    This is just BS false equivalence. "oh but the the christians"
     
  9. Value Collector

    Value Collector Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    you can't have one without the other. If you raise millions of children with the belief that a certain book is the word of god, a certain percentage always going to take it literally.

    Beliefs inform actions, and when a large group believes nonsense, don't be surprised when we have some terrible side effects happening.

    We could go another thousand years condemning extremism, but saying moderate religion is good, and we will have thousand years of extremism.

    The only way to get rid of extremism is move away from moderate religion and other supernatural stuff in favour of rational thoughts. As long as moderate religion gets respect and is viewed as good, children will continue to be lied to and indoctrinated, and a certain percentage will become extremists.
     
  10. banco

    banco Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    A central tenet of islam is taking the Koran literally.
     
  11. Value Collector

    Value Collector Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    Not really, Australia does have blasphemy laws, although the last person charged and sentenced was in 1919, for a piece of satire (sound familiar)

    ----------

    However, in our not to distant past western countries have put people to death for blasphemy.

    Also, in the last few years Christians in Africa have put "witches" to death by burning them alive, so taking religious texts literally and do nasty things is not just a muslim thing.

    It is however less common in Christianity, because Christianity has been suppressed by secular society for a much longer period of time, So they mainly just threaten to burn you in hell after you die rather than literally burn you alive like they used to.
     
  12. Value Collector

    Value Collector Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    it's the central tenant of many Christian faiths also.
     
  13. Tink

    Tink Well-Known Member

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    Agree, Calliope, and section 18C should have been changed.

    Are you still going on with this PC garbage, VC.
     
  14. Calliope

    Calliope Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    That seems to be the popular excuse. It was also used in the Sydney seige. It is bullsh!t. It is well oganised.

    .
    All dedicated Islamist "nutters" A big bunch indeed.:rolleyes:

    http://www.vox.com/2014/9/12/6138977/isis-iraq-numbers
     
  15. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    Pity you didn't take in all of my post.
     
  16. Value Collector

    Value Collector Well-Known Member

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    ?????

    What are you talking about?

    What have I said here that has anything to do with Political correctness?

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    They closest topic I have mentioned to political correctness is the anti blasphemy laws, which I oppose, charging people with blasphemy would be enforcing political correctness in the highest degree.

    By the way, What's your opinion on blasphemy laws?
     
  17. banco

    banco Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    If you are trying to argue that the average Christian in the West has similar views to the average muslim on whether satire dealing with religion should be prohibited/punished you are either being disingenuous or you are a fool.
     
  18. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    I simply said that all religions have to learn that freedom of speech comes with freedom of religion in western countries anyway. If you want one you have to accept the other.

    If you couldn't comprehend that from my first post, then you are the fool.
     
  19. FxTrader

    FxTrader Well-Known Member

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    Islam inspired violence seems the most appropriate description for current events though even this will likely be criticized by the apologists for religion here. It's all too convenient to excuse the Islamic faith from any blame for the actions of "criminal extremists" who presumably misinterpret this so called religion of peace. I would argue that the "nutters" are simply literalists who take their faith to seriously.

    How should one interpret and act on the verses below if you're a devout Muslim literalist/fundamentalist? What "context" allows one to cast such statements in a peaceful light?

    Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

    Quran (8:39) And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

    Quran (9:29) Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

    Quran (9:33) It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

    Quran (2:191-193) "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where
    they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo!
    Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah]and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression
     
  20. overhang

    overhang Well-Known Member

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    Re: The West has lost it's freedom of speech

    What are you basing this statement on other than your opinion? I don't really recall any example of Christians or any other religion making threats against these types of satire magazines never mind carrying out an attack. Yet we have many examples of Muslims condemning such coverage with the threat of violence.
     
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