• Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The monetary system only works if people don't understand it

Discussion in 'General Investment and Economics' started by Tyler Durden, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    I was talking to my friend about money not being backed by gold, money being debt, and fractional reserve banking. He made an interesting comment, and said "the monetary system only works if people don't understand it".

    What do you think?
     
  2. rumpole

    rumpole Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    I think the monetary system has been complicated by too many alleged gurus, eg investment bankers , economists and share speculators who think up new formulas that they reckon explain the monetary system, when all they are doing is throwing dirty water over the whole issue.

    The system hasn't changed, it's just been hyped up to keep these gurus in a job and extend their mystique in the financial industry.
     
  3. rumpole

    rumpole Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    OK , it's changed a bit. e.g. Derivatives trading, which is just an extended form of gambling that I can't see adds any value to the market, but again just helps the gurus to stay in a job.
     
  4. Glen48

    Glen48 Money can't buy Poverty

    Posts:
    2,433
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    And when they find their system is not working they change the rules or some Fed officer refuses to do any thing about it.
     
  5. craft

    craft Can't re Member

    Posts:
    1,758
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    The monetary system works despite people not understanding it.
     
  6. lurker123

    lurker123 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    I would rather have a slave for life (debt), than a useless chunk of gold which only has a small real value because of its useful properties, maybe 5% and lots of made up value because currently a large chunk of the population decided to value it highly at the current time.

    The monetary system works regardless of whether people understand it or not. The question is whether the current system is a good system.
     
  7. Starcraftmazter

    Starcraftmazter Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Correct.


    It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. ~ Henry Ford


    All monetary systems "work" until they don't.
     
  8. notting

    notting Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,797
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    I prefer not to quote losers unless I'm being cynical.
     
  9. lurker123

    lurker123 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Just like money backed by gold would work, until it doesn't.

    You need to watch the source of all those quotes, instead of the second hand source of gold spruikers.

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-secret-of-oz/
    which goes over the history of money and possible solutions the the problem.

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-money-masters/
    the older 1996 video which gives a more in depth look at the history of money.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6uuAupT4AQ
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt-promises-unleashed/
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt/
    the money as debt series which properly details how money works.

    The fact is that all the monetary systems that have been tried including money backed by gold have their weaknesses. The current system is still working, you just need to be in the class which the current system works best for. A goal which I and most of those in this forum are trying to attain, considering we are trading in shares.
     
  10. Starcraftmazter

    Starcraftmazter Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Best not ever quote yourself then.

    Your ungrateful **** should thank Henry Ford for everything all employees worldwide have today.

    It worked perfectly well and better than this retarded **** we have going here now.

    That's the most perverted thing I've ever heard. You are a sick person to endorse slavery. Not to mention if you have watched money as debt like you claim, you should be well aware that the current system is coming at an end.
     
  11. notting

    notting Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,797
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Whoops!!
    Sorry wrong Ford.
    I am an idiot!
    However revolutions normally don't happen until the people feel too much is being taken from them and that there is something they can do about it.
    How monetary systems work - most don't give a rats.
     
  12. Starcraftmazter

    Starcraftmazter Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    I'm very glad to hear it!!! I cannot imagine how anyone would not like Ford. :D

    In terms of the revolution, well let us see whether the GFC and the ongoing mess will deliver. Things might not be so bad in Australia (yet), but in the US and Europe it's a whole other story.
     
  13. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    lol I was wondering why you called Ford a loser :confused:
     
  14. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    +1

    I think it's fairly safe to say that society is starting to awaken to the various shortcomings of our current monetary system.
     
  15. lurker123

    lurker123 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Shows you haven't watched the original videos and only the 2nd hand sources of gold spruikers. I won't explain the problem with money backed by gold as it is explained perfectly in the original videos. I have also posted other problems with it not mentioned in the videos, in the "The Global Economic Crisis and Its Effect on the Australian Currency" thread.

    Eventually it will come to a end, if we fail to achieve interstellar travel so we can start raping the resources of other planets. The question is when. I see a high chance of it persisting in my life time, so the fact that it might come to a end is irrelevant to me personally. Even if it comes to a end, the elites will just find a way to manipulate the new system that gets created. The elites didn't get where they are by being dumb. Successful psychopaths aren't dumb, hence the "successful".

    I'm just taking the defeatist attitude. The system we have now is what I have to deal with, so i just have to make the best of what we have. So yeah, humanity is ****ed, I don't give a ****, nothing I can do about it except try to become the class that benefits so i'm not ****ed myself.
     
  16. Starcraftmazter

    Starcraftmazter Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Nothing that is a potential problem with the gold standard can even come close to the problems of fractional reserve banking and central banks which create all money and charge everyone interest, which goes to rich international banker families.

    I for one refuse to sit idly by while myself and 7 billion others live as slaves, in the servitude of a few.
     
  17. notting

    notting Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,797
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    It was the people who voted for tomorrows welfare pay packet at the expense of their country and who feasted on cheap goods from slave nations at the ultimate expense of their own and their childrens longer term employment/welfare that created the GFC, not the monetary systems, that accommodated it. If the democratic people were honest with themselves they could only revolt against themselves.

    The problem with the models is that GROWTH is God! Worshiped blindly in policy making.

    If I had to put money on it, I'd probably go for heavier seas due to land glacier melts pushing down on the plates causing some major volcanic eruption that wipes out about a third of the living space on earth and causes a pretty major freeze up that will hit the reset button for the rest.
    The growth model can continue on from there again.
    Pity we can't be smarter about it with educated social conscience.

    Then again, a meteorite is of course a free radical that has no probability assignable to it, nor a developable system to avert it.

    But tomorrow we wake up and the game is still on, so we play the status quo.
    Imponderables.
    How much time is it worth investing in them?
     
  18. Starcraftmazter

    Starcraftmazter Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    I'm pretty sure all the housing and other speculative bubbles around the world would not exist if we had a hard currency backed by gold, so people couldn't get infinity gold to bid each other up on overpriced assets :sly:
     
  19. lurker123

    lurker123 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    You might be right there, on the other hand we would have massive unemployment because there is not enough money around.

    By the way, as stated in the original videos, gold backed money is even more easily manipulated by the international banksters. Your own link "Crash Course: Chapter 9 - A Brief History of U.S. Money by Chris Martenson" even mentions how the federal reserve was created when the US dollar was backed by gold. It even mentions how quote: "complete control of the gold supply of the most powerful and prosperous nation on earth was exchange for 11 billion dollars printed out of thin air."

    I thought it was understood that money attracts money. Under a limited money supply, as one backed by the gold standard, you would end up with those at the top accumulating all the wealth, in this case gold, a lot quicker than otherwise. Inflation as under fiat currency is a partial reset switch to this problem. Since it devalues money and discourages hoarding. Under the gold standard, deflation would be the norm, and deflation = massive unemployment such as during the great depression.
     
  20. Starcraftmazter

    Starcraftmazter Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Buddy, that makes absolutely zero sense. Please do even try to explain it, and I promise I will without insult explain why you are wrong.

    There can never be "not enough" money. Gold can be priced at anything required relative to other assets. When growth exceeds gold supply growth the miracle of deflation occurs. This is one of the key differences between our current system and the godly gold system - it benefits the people, whereas the current system benefits the elite. That is why they spread lies and other bull**** about gold.

    In reality gold is by far the best way to go.

    Yes, and this is why fiat currency goes hand in hand with central banking.

    That is why if we are to have a gold standard, there must be no central banks, and money must not be capable of being printed by any bank. This is why the government must issue all IOUs for gold into the monetary system.

    No dude, just no. That is not how it works. Deflation does not cause unemployment under the gold standard without central banks - that is a fallacy which people are led to believe because it happens under out current monetary system which benefits the rich and screws over everyone else. The Federal Reserve was the primary cause of the great depression - not the gold standard. Hell, Bernanke himself has admitted this!
    http://www.wnd.com/2008/03/59405/

    If the US was under the gold standard, it's currency issued by the treasury, none of the crap that caused the great depression would have ever happened.



    In a capitalist country with a gold standard, and no central banking and free markets - then high unemployment would be literally impossible, with very rare exceptions, where it wouldn't last long - certainly not as long as it has in USA and Europe since the GFC.

    In reality virtually all panics and recessions are caused by mal-investment and speculation, which cannot occur to a devastating enough degree without fractional reserve banking and the ability of someone to print money. The worst thing that happened back in the day was that a few stupid banks (out of hundreds) went bankrupt, and in 1-3 years the economy got over it.

    Did that suck? Yes
    Did unemployment temporarily spike? Yes
    Did the government need to bail anyone out? **** no
    Did the government need to tax people to make up for their own failures? **** no
    Did the gold standard ever stop America from growing faster than China and having the biggest and richest middle class in the whole world? No it damn well did not


    Not only did the Fed cause the Great depression and the GFC, but almost all of the recessions in between, with the only major exception being the oil shock of 1979. And to be perfectly fair, that was a direct result of US and UK puppetry intervention in Iran (surprise surprise, ****'s happening again).
     
Loading...

Share This Page