My thoughts are that we should stop all overseas payments to who ever & direct the billion plus we pay , to helping our farmers now !
Your thoughts please
My thoughts are that we should stop all overseas payments to who ever & direct the billion plus we pay , to helping our farmers now !
Your thoughts please
Need to tackle the problem at its source. Need to encourage governments to change their tune to the global warming issue or this kind of event may become the norm.
Don't know about this but do agree the farmers need some serious assistance.Originally Posted by Bobby
Bob, They mentioned on ABC this evening that Aus is becoming a bipolar society - city vs bush. (so what's new). IMHO - Let's all us city folk immediately pay 2% extra tax, to be channeled to the bush, for them to truck water if necessary- who nose, they may end up with 105% of the income we get (on a good year), and 65% (on average). As for overseas payments - lets accept that we make ten tmes what they make and not even blink as we pay it!Originally Posted by Bobby
PS they said 6 years since decent rain !! sheesh. - so dry the trees were chasing the dogs !! so dry the frogs drowned because they forgot how to swim!
Aren't we taxed enough as it is? With the record budget surplus this year its not like to government is short of spending money.
sorry mate Ive got a bad habit of talking from the heart and not the pocket - heaven forbid that I should have difficulty paying off the mortgage on my comfortable suburban house, when my "brothers" and "sisters" are having difficulty finding the energy and the will to tackle the gut wrenching torment of day after day dragging their dead sheep or cattle (and kangaroos) out or their putrid muddy dams.Originally Posted by bowser
Maybe you are saying redirect the surplus instead of increasing taxes - fine by me mate paper shuffling as far as Im concerned.
Bring on the drought, maybe those idiots will start to realise that Kyoto was something we should have ratified instead off going down the US line (or should be going down on the US)
Its time we started farming more efficently...Ban crops such as cotton and rice, and any other crops that use ridiculous amounts of water and that are unsustanable for Australia's climate.
The city-folk domestic use is 9% of total water used...and the rest is used by farming and commercial business'.
The government needs to start a buy-back scheme ASAP and reduce the amount of farmers on the land. It sounds silly but we should be importing all fruits and vegitables that Australia cannot grow, or cannot afford to grow with our limited water.
Sure we will lose a few farmers and slightly increase out imports and slightly reduce our exports but if a farmer has these odds, what the hell are they doing out in the desert, called Australia. 1 out of 10 years is a bumber crop, 2 out of 10 years is an average crop and 7 out of 10 years is a below average crop.
And yes every 4 days a male farmer commits suicide within Australia
STC - you are absolutely right!Originally Posted by Stop_the_clock
We drove from Adelaide to Brisbane last year, through the Hay Plains, then up through NSW.
I was disgusted that in the middle of arid, desolate lands, 'irrigators' had massive, open trenches brimming with water. To feed their mini-corn, and rice! This is the problem, we should not be trying to grow rice and cotton and corn - we can import those from Asia and not only give struggling Asian countries an export, but then save the water for crops we HAVE to grow like wheat. These farmers are also not the struggling farmers who have inherited their lands and are desperate to make them work, they are (probably) overseas large scale conglomerates, with local (probably) city living rich jocks who cash in on the cheap water at the real farmers, and our expense!
For what it is worth, I also dont believe that we people are responsible for global warming. It is part of the natural cycle that our planet experiences, and we just happen to be in a warming cycle. How do you explain the dinosaur eras - the planet was WAY warmer then and we werent even around to blame!
Re: Reticulate Australia .....
Instead of whining about the symptoms of drought, let's
inject some constructive thought into drought-proofing
Australia ..... it CAN be done, with a genuine commitment
from BOTH governments and the private sector.
We have been pumping water from Perth to Kalgoorlie, which
is 360 metres above sea level, for over 100 years !~!
Imagine, how much water and energy we can save, if we
could REVERSE that flow ..... there would be a torrent of
water flowing into our parched reservoirs in Perth ..... a
torrent of water, that could also generate power, as well !~!
Right-of-way for a pipeline from Kalgoorlie-to-Perth presents
no problem, as it has been established for over 100 years !~!
Described as the largest infrastructure project, since the
Snowy River Scheme, Reticulate Australia has the potential
to bring into reality the dreams of forward-thinkers, like
Ernie Bridge, billionaire Richard Pratt and C.Y. O'Connor ....
Imagine the benefits to farmers across the nation, a water
supply that never runs dry!!
Controlled broadacre irrigation to ensure a bumper cotton and
grain crop .... EVERY YEAR!!
Open up new land that was previously marginal, due to
lack of water.
First, from the Kimberley, a short link to maintain
underground reserves in the Officer Basin and then another
pipeline from Kalgoorlie-to- Perth and on to the dry interior
of Southern West Australia.
Fill the old gold mining pits and regional dams to optimum
levels to encourage local industry, leisure and tourism
Another line from the Officer Basin to be run eastwards, in
tandem with a gas pipeline from Kalgoorlie to the Palm Valley
gasfields, the onwards to Alice Springs and Moomba and
Cubbie Station, at the head of the Darling River system.
From there, both water and gas can be distributed in this
dual-pipe configuration to link with established networks
and create new links to critical dams and reservoirs at the
head of our failing eastern waterways .....
..... Adelaide has the worst water quality in Australia, yet a
pipeline shorter than the Dampier-Perth route, could supply
Adelaide with pure, clean water, straight out of the tap ... !~!
Despite the scaremongering about lack of water and water
quality, we DO have plenty of RENEWABLE potable water,
we have the technology, so let's get a committment from the
pollies to stand up and lobby for a common-sense approach
to maintaining water and energy, throughout Australia.
Towing icebergs from Antarctica or giant desalination plants
are NOT the answer for Perth, Adelaide or elsewhere, either.
Current estimates of supplies from Officer Basin tell us, that
the established reservoir could meet Perth's requirements
for the next 400 years ..... and that's without a replenishing
line from the Kimberley resources !~!
Do something for Australia ..... lobby for the advancement of
a pipeline network that will drought-proof Australia and
provide cheap energy nationwide, at the same time..
have a nice day
Yogi , lol I love most of this - but - how you gonna get energy out a system that takes water from (not far above) sea level to (not far above) sea level? Or are you saying its downhill from Kimberley to Kalgoorlie because of the Latitude? lol. Gotta pump that water over the next hill mate.Originally Posted by yogi-in-oz
"billionaire Richard Pratt " - shame he's not a quadrillionaire - but I agree that's where the Govt should get involved.
Cwealth Water report just out (radio interview with Malcolm Turnbull) - needless to say it's all about the States not doing their share - surprise surprise ! might be an interesting read though.
Also these stories on yesterday's PM:-
Last edited by 2020hindsight; 14th-October-2006 at 01:24 PM.
Originally Posted by 2020hindsight
20/20 ..... was referring to power generation, in the
360 metre drop from Kal-to-Perth ..... wherever the water
does need pumping, the power already generated can be
used or the tandem gas line can supply energy for the
pumping stations, along the right-of-way !!
Technically, we have the expertise ..... it just seems,
that we have no pollies prepared to accept responsibility
for such a project, as yet.
There's only a SHORT pipeline proposed from the Ord
River Dam to the NORTHERN end of the Officer Basin,
diverting water, which would normally flow out to sea,
via the Fiztroy River system, every year.
So, there's no need for a pipeline from the Ord to Perth,
just 2 shorter pipelines, instead ..... one from the Ord
River to the NORTHERN end of Officer Basin and another
from the SOUTHERN end of Officer Basin to Kal/Perth ...
..... and the Kimberley pipeline need not be built in the
immediate future !~!
Wherever the water does need pumping, the tandem gas
line will supply energy for the pumping stations, along
the right-of-way ..... too easy!~!
With capped gasfields in the Kimberley, the Ord will then
benefit, with cheap energy supplies coming on stream,
while the rest of Australia benefits from a completed gas
grid and a RENEWABLE source of water, piped to all
corners of the continent (if necessary) .....
have a great weekend
Totally Yogi, but why are all your posts aligned to the left? Maybe its just me but I find them really hard to read!
Well mate I dont think you're going to get much power out of this line but I'll keep an open mind lol. Ive been proved wrong many times . At least 2 last week for instance - or 20 if you ask my wife lol. There's the other plus, that if there's a fire in the gas line, you'll have the water right there to put it out (Editor's note - wink here means I'm saying it, but I'm not believing it).Originally Posted by yogi-in-oz
I completely agree with STC and Prospector. Australia is no place to be growing cotton or any other similarly thirsty crop. Most of the water used is by the agricultural sector while garden lovers watch their much loved plants die because in many places all outside watering is banned.
Successive governments have been complacent and basically negligent about not having contingency plans.
The point has been made that the federal government has a heap of surplus money, some of which can be used to assist farmers. However, I see no point in pouring money into farms which are essentially unsustainable for whatever reason. Yes, it's sad. But we've all had to give up our dreams in various ways. It makes a lot more sense to me for us to support farmers in less affluent countries than our own by importing their produce.
We've got all the water we could possibly use in this country. The problem is that it's either:
1. In northern Australia
2. In Tasmania
3. Salt water in the ocean
4. Right near our major cities but flowing unused into the sea
There is absolutely no reason for water shortages in any of the state capital cities. No reason whatsoever. All we need to do is stop telling outright lies as the Victorian government has being doing (their false claims that dams don't collect water and cloud seeding doesn't work) and work out which of the available options is the most sensible to implement.
IMO we'll see major new water supply schemes built to supply Melbourne and Sydney before much longer. At some point there will be the inevitable realisation that if garden watering restrictions are permanently applied as an alternative to expanding supply then we are all in deep **** when there's a drought because the system would become (due to population growth) dependent on the watering bans even with normal rainfall. We would end up with no alternative but to seriously restrict toilet flushing, showers, washing hands etc during droughts and I can't see the voters tolerating that for long.
Well toilet flushing is another topic - recycle it mate !. I'm not taking the p*** by the way lol (despite the icon)Originally Posted by Smurf1976
Like that lady in Toowoomba saying SHE wouldnt drink anything that had been through someone else !!. (might be a complete STIRRAAANGER !!! tccch tcch ) Well try Adelaide lady - the water has been through 8 people, 15 cows, used to wash down the dairy floor, and then some
PS AS Jo Bjelke Petersen used to say , "you can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make him water". Relevance? marginal at best lol.
The trouble with Kyoto is that it discriminates:Originally Posted by bvbfan
See link attached:Other countries, like India and China, which have ratified the protocol, are not required to reduce carbon emissions under the present agreement despite their relatively large populations.
Discussion only! Posts may be factually incorrect due to ignorance, taken out of context, misinterpreted, or just opinionated discussion.
Kyoto is a sop to the bleeding hearts, both India and China will INCREASE their green house emissions in the next year by more than the TOTAL emissions in Australia.
If Oz stopped emissions completely then by the next year it would have made no difference to the world, but a hell of a difference to us.
In fact, because we actually try to limit our emissions we should manufacture more in Oz, this way the countries that do not limit emissions will have less demand, the world will be better off
Also, if we look at the history of the world we are in fact still in a mini ice age, of course we are going to get warmer, the world has had no polar icecaps for the vast majority of provable climatic history (drill cores etc)
The current federal government is the first in recorded history to actually try to do something about the stuff up the states have created with our river systems.
By law, the states control the water in their own rivers, an example is that Qld, NSW, Vic and SA have managed to sell 128% of the water flow of the Darling Murray system
All state political parties are guilty, the only way to fix it is to buy back the water rights from the farmers, this is what the federal government has quietly been doing. But in reality the states, all four of them, need to reduce everyones water rights and leave some water for those lower down.
There is a guy in Qld with dams bigger than Sydney harbour for his cotton, he has weirs across the river and pumps it all in to his dams. In the old days it would have been a range war, with dynamite and rifles, but he has the rights issued by the Qld government so NSW etc can get stuffed !!
I believe that a river which is part of a system that crosses state borders should be controlled federally so that everyone gets a fair share.
Pollution is the real threat, Co2 is just a convenient distraction
The basic point is that if we adopt permanent water restrictions then in due course we end up with a water supply system which can only cope with that level of water demand even under "normal" conditions. Nobody is going to build an maintain a system with a big surplus capacity that is never used.Originally Posted by 2020hindsight
Then at some point when there's trouble due to drought, equipment failure etc and consumption has to be restricted below that "normal" level then there is no easy way to do it. We have to stop showering, shut down industry etc possibly for years on end.
In contrast, if we build a water system which can normally supply all the water we want for gardens etc then we have a lot more room to cut back when trouble strikes (as it will from time to time).
Agreed with macca's comments. Emissions are going up and the climate is going to change, for whatever reason, whether we like it or not. I do think the world needs to do something but it just isn't happening. That leaves adaptation as the only option for Australia. We're going to have no option but to build more water infrastructure for the cities and see the demise of some water-intensive agricultural operations. That isn't going to be cheap...
As usual you make it all sound so easy - but without too much smoke and not too many mirrors ( none that I can see).Originally Posted by Smurf1976
but but but, the situation isnt going to get better until that particular lady is made to apologise and drink RAW horse urine on a combined sitting of "This Day Tonight" and " A Current Affair". !! (that wink means Im saying it but im not meaning etc etc ). Speaking of which the dog needs to go water a tree up the road.
PS I might miss a post while Im gone - BUT the dog NEVER misses a post !
PS Got your point about "not using up the reserve in the system, because then when we want a reserve we wont have it". Are you implying that politicians and planners push their luck with planning ? Dont build any fat into their plans? and then blame "bad luck" when they are shown to have cut corners or dont have enough resources? ( be it water, power, back burning? ) SHAME on you smurf