Wayne Ill get around to those websites maybe at the weekend ... but I keep looking for some evidence of modern day statesmen out there.Originally Posted by wayneL
You can compare George W and Winston Churchill for instance ...
using the following websites :-
GWB ON HISTORY:-
"You never know what your history is going to be like until long after you're gone." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing about him is that I read three -- three or four books about him last year. Isn't that interesting?" --George W. Bush, while showing German newspaper reporter Kai Diekmann the Oval Office, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
"I like to tell people when the final history is written on Iraq, it will look like just a comma because there is -- my point is, there's a strong will for democracy." --George W. Bush, interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Sept. 24, 2006
WC ON HISTORY:-
"Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour.""
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."
GWB ON PERSEVERENCE:-
"I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me." --George W. Bush, talking to key Republicans about Iraq, as quoted by Bob
WC ON PERSEVERENCE:-
"We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."
GWB ON PURPOSE:-
"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --George W. Bush, interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006
WC ON PURPOSE:-
Behind them - behind us- behind the Armies and Fleets of Britain and France - gather a group of shattered States and bludgeoned races: the Czechs, the Poles, the Norwegians, the Danes, the Dutch, the Belgians - upon all of whom the long night of barbarism will descend, unbroken even by a star of hope, unless we conquer, as conquer we must; as conquer we shall.
GWB ON TIDES:-
I think -- tide turning -- see, as I remember -- I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of -- it's easy to see a tide turn -- did I say those words?" --George W. Bush, asked if the tide was turning in Iraq, Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006
WC ON TIDES:-
The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the world war by their prowess and by their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Wayne,Originally Posted by wayneL
What is the constant changing of the avatar?
Dullesville? Where is that?
Discussion only! Posts may be factually incorrect due to ignorance, taken out of context, misinterpreted, or just opinionated discussion.
Bear with him mate .... AHHHHRRRRRRHHHHH! (jaws etc)Originally Posted by It's Snake Pliskin
He just wants pepol to think he looks like Robert Redford. - or maybe he's only just keeping ahead of the CIA with these posts.
Good luck to you if you listen to Alex Jones. He's a conspiracy theorist nutcase.
The USA today is the seventh World Super Power since the beginning of known times....
Much as some of you dislike the USA the fact remains:
No other Super Power throughout history EVER allowed other nations, powers, super-powers to emerge, either, politically, financially, culturally OR, more importantly MILITARILY. The Great USA , the Defender of YOUR right to free expression (the other, emerging, super power China, is not exactly as supportive of your and mine , and the Chinese People Democratic, humane, inalienable rights) let's You, everybody else, to freely express your views! Fights in fact for your rights to express your views!
The only threat to this world, this planet, our mankind is Islam. And G.W Is trying hard to stop that scourge, that plague from engulfing beheadingly and terroristicly the entire planet. Be appreciative for your FREEDOM instead of endeavouring to put down the Nation that allows us, the whole World with the Free, humane, democratic values we have today, the USA!
Cheers)))))))))))) May thy Sunday be A Great one! In Even Greater and Super Free Nation. Australia. USA'S Best and Closer Ally)))
********* Democracy's and humanity's closest friend*********That's US. The West. The USA, Australia and the EU. China is Following behind...Japan is also doing a good job.....
Wouldn't agree epsilon. There are far more pressing matters then islam (global warming for instance). In fact IMO the current US administration has handled to whole terrorism issue dreadfully and actually their actions have resulted in more terrorist incidents.Originally Posted by Epsilon
My feeling is that by promoting the terrorism issue and scaring the public the Bush administration has made it easier to erode public freedoms thus taking the US in a more dictatorial direction. The US should throw money at the people of islam instead of trying to stereotype them as terrorists. The more they westernise the more likely they are not going to want to support terrorism because it might threaten there new plasma screen or nice car. These people have nothing to lose thats why terrorism thrives.
However as much as the US has headed in a more far right direction sinces Bush's appointment i agree its largely because of them (previous administrations) that we have many freedoms that we do. If Bush were to face an election today he would be voted out and that is why the US is still fundamentally not a dictatorship. In the end the people still have the power.
Originally Posted by billhill
Bill, your last paragraph makes sense. That is precisely the Fundamental difference between the WEST (USA) and Islamic countries. They do not appeciate , they do not want to have democracy, human rights, our human values based on freedom and inalienable democratic rights.
It's impossible to change that (islamic) attitude, except perhaps by replacing it with something equally as austere and undemocratic that would totally suppress any democratic, human rights. Something like Communism. Communism is the only systen that can defeat Islam. Maybe the entire Islamic World should go through a communistic (politically-NOT ECONOMICALLY) system for a transitional period , so that Islamic Fanaticism can be whiped out. Why am I saying this? Well....IF you allow them (muslims) even the slightest democratic freedoms they will use it to politically manipulate their system in order to install either directly (Iran) or by stealth (Hamas, if allowed to stay in power) Islamic Law, which will mean the END of any hopes for democratisation.......The whole world, not only the WEST, must seriously consider the threat Islam is presenting to the World. It's not an issue that is presently only contemplated by the Evangelical Right in the USA. It's a World-Wide problem, far more dangerous than anything else, including the Global Warming issue which indeed ranks as a very serious problem.
Originally Posted by billhill
The US and the rest of the world are "throwing" enormous amounts of money at the Arab / Islam world in
payments for their oil, something that has been going on for decades. Why aren't the people of Islam doing
something to get a bigger a share of that money? Why should the US "throw" more money at them? Why aren't
EU, Japan, China , Australia.... expected to "throw" money at people of Islam. My guess is that it is not the money
that Islam is after. They are facing a far more important issue than money.
"The more they westernise the more likely they are not going to want to support terrorism because it might
threaten there new plasma screen or nice car".
Billhill, you have hit the nail on its head. You have supplied the answer. The old Islam culture is threatened by the
new consumption and science based culture from the west. Power of mullahs is under threat, and they are not
going to accept it without an enormous struggle. Just think of what happened to the once global power of the
Roman Catholic Church during the past few centuries. What is called terrorism in the west is called jihad or holy
war against the "Great Satan" by the radical islamists. And it started long before George Bush became President
of the US.
Epsilon I would say your sentence "it is impossible etc" makes sense, but the communist bit doesn't. There's NO WAY you'll change even a moderate Moslems beliefs with Communism. Isnt that what Russian tried in Afghanistan?Originally Posted by Epsilon
I recall a documentary about a soccer field that the world had given to Afghanistan (under the Taliban). Like wouldn't that be fun? Play some sport? maybe join in in international matches? Nope they prefered to use it as an execution arena. The women were lined up on the 18 yard goal square and shot whilst kneeling, - and the goalposts were used (only) as a gallows for the men. When asked about this practice a representative of the Taliban govt said " Well!! If youd wanted us to play soccer, why then you should have given us TWO fields - one for what WE wanted to do, and one for what YOU wanted us to do!"
I knew a few Afghans who escaped through the mountains as regugees and made it to Aus. One (a 16 year old boy then) still had a Russian bullet permanently lodged near his spine). I gave a group of them a lift up the coast - when the sun went down we had to screech to a stop, and out came the prayer mats on the side of the road. But accept Communism? you've gotta be joking.
The other thing (unrelated) about Islam that springs to mind is that movie with Sallie Fields, she returns to Iran with her Moslem husband, and cops the full extent of the discrimination. ....
The best option is surely to appeal to moderate moslems imho.
Perhaps we should be dropping plasma screens and BMWs on these mulluhs instead of bombs
Originally Posted by 2020hindsight
2020, Well...To a certain extent you are correct. HOWEVER, please remember this: In Afghanistan if it was not for the West's support (in hindsight it was a Pyrrhic Victory for us, the West....) for the so called Mujahadeen anti-Government (communistic, pro-Soviet, then), perhaps Afghanistan and the Middle East would have been different today.
One must also add here this: In ex Communist, Soviet Republic of Central Asia Kazakstan, Uzbekistan, etc, where the Islamic element predominates the majority of the population is only in name Muslims. No fanaticism at all.
(Chechnia, is different, they use Islam as a rallying point to unite themselves for independence from Russia).
Also, worth mentioning here is this. In Egypt, Iraq and Syria there was strong communist following, even underground, untill Nasser (in Egypt) Assad ( in Syria, the father of the present belligerent Syrian president) and Saddam (in Iraq) murdered most of them while others died in gaol.
I know, it's extremely difficult to sow the Marxist-communistic ideology in any Islamic country, however not impossible. Iran is a case in point. The Mullahs there with their paranoically deranged leader Ahmedinejad have imposed one of the worst islamo-fascistic dictatorship......Still, there are quite a few Marxists there who are of-course being severely persecuted (like everyone else even remotely not pro-Mullahic). Only few weeks ago a unionist marxist was executed in Iran because of his un-Islamic ideology.
Finally, this time such style of communism (political NOT Economic), would not have the "traditional" hostility from the Western Democracies-ESPECIALLY if it can serve the paramount purpose of de-fanaticising muslims.....
I know, my idea sounds a bit (a bit? what an understatement!) farfetched. However, nothing is impossible, more so after a chaotic situation, such as can develop in Iraq if we, the WEST pull out our troops......
Some interesting points man. I'll restrict myself to just the excerpt lol. We certainly taught Osama all his skills in that period. Should we have ignored the plight of the Afghanis? Has that assistance come back to sting us? Is there a moslem group somewhere who remembers our help to the Mujahadeen, and therefore sees us in good light? Can we build on that?Originally Posted by Epsilon
Last edited by 2020hindsight; 15th-October-2006 at 09:44 PM.
2020, I will keep it very short this time: Muslims CANNOT be trusted! No matter how moderate they may appear to be, history has taught us that Islam is a treacherous ideology and muslims cannot be trusted.Originally Posted by 2020hindsight
Epsilon, wowo - don't you think that they would say the same about us?! After WWI, didnt Lawrence of Arabia promise the Arabs Syria etc? - A condition of their help in the war? Only for all of them to be backstabbed and it was given to France instead? Mate there's no point is reliving the Crusades here. Sure to be counterproductive. People who live in grass houses shouldnt stow thrones mate.Originally Posted by Epsilon
How did a thread on the suspension of the US constitution/habeus corpus etc, turn into a muslim hatefest?
Last edited by wayneL; 16th-October-2006 at 01:07 AM.
Noble sentiments Epsilon. Sentiments I used to share with you. Unfortunately, they are naive in the extreme and at odds with reality.Originally Posted by Epsilon
I was raised in the US and have several relatives there, so am in a good position to observe events as they unfold.
The US government now has the legal capacity to impliment a totalitarian dictatorship on the say-so of one man. Let's hope God doesn't tell him to "go for it" next time he talks to the president.
Here's a quick summary of the first 20 minutes lol :- Quotes "If you dont show almost total allegiance to the Govt (not the constitution or Bill of Rights) you can be secretly arrested and secretly executed" "The demolition of the constitution" "Statin Hitler Mao never put in on paper, (but this does)". "Weve reached max overdrive propaganda."
"Judges you are not to interpret this or overturn this, that is an order from your president - Gonzales cautions judges on interfering etc. No one is allowed to appeal it. The President now has legal authority even courts cant challenge (can't even hear the case)."
I dont have no limitations all I have is length
I don't need no "Nited Nations, all I need is strength
Doesnt have a back seat otherwise I'd drive in tanks
Then I'd rename it United Sexes
That's the way we do things back in Texas.
Best thing you could do with all those wierd bearded loons
Give em all a sixgun and then line em up at noon
Me at one end of the street a-wearing my racoon
Those bad buggas dancing Mexicano
That's the way we do things Texicano
Posse ready? Track them varmits, sack the Taliban
Let em run in undergarments all round 'Ghanistan
Flatten out Iraq until the buggas understan
Woe to any bad guy that affects us
Thats the way we do things back in Texas
Hombre, when youre ready take your medicine here boy,
Feeling lucky are we punk, force me to deploy?
This here fighter bomber's not yer average kinda toy!
No one with some sense in em objects us
Thats the way we do things back in Texas.
Most fights have some flags and fun, these blokes hide in holes
I like when the rabbits run, dont like fightin moles
I like when the baddies hit and then his eyeball rolls
Then he whispers " errr, Uncle Sam annex us !!!
THAT's the way we do things back in Texas".
mmm You'd have to worry for David Hicks's chances of a fair trial (as it that's possible after 4 years, coming up 5). Gee but I admired that US Army Legal colonel who seems to be defending him to the end - literally putting his career on the line for David Hicks. As if the Aus govt gave two hoots.
Do you mean Major Mori? ie. MAJOR Mori?Originally Posted by 2020hindsight
Yep - sorry - in my subconscious I seem to have given him a promotionOriginally Posted by YELNATS
Funny how the US Govt assist in the making of shows like JAG - but then when a REAL JAG hero stands up, they "give him a hard time" (putting it mildly). Hypocrisy is alive and well etc etc.
Trouble is USA is gonna think that it just takes a change of President for the world to have a change of opinion of the Stars and Stripes. Sadly the damage will last longer than that. When the talk of democractic justice turns out to be all hype and no substance..