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  1. #41

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knobby22 View Post
    I'd love to know if you have ever worked for a charity.
    Also, are you getting HECs?

    I think your idea of little countries who run themselves equates to the gated communities of the US which have their own police force, doctors golf courses etc.
    You would love it .... if you had a couple of mil. You don't even have to see an average person.
    +1.
    SCM, I give up. Your attitude toward your fellow human beings, especially those who are most vulnerable, is repugnant to me.
    I doubt very much that you will be fortunate enough to maintain your arrogant smugness for ever. Life has a way of redressing the balance.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    This thread feels like it belongs in a Dickens novel, not the 21st century.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia View Post
    +1.
    SCM, I give up. Your attitude toward your fellow human beings, especially those who are most vulnerable, is repugnant to me.
    I doubt very much that you will be fortunate enough to maintain your arrogant smugness for ever. Life has a way of redressing the balance.
    Look, it's just a simple economic reality. The dependency ratio in Australia is going to become highly unfavourable in the coming decades - regardless of whatever population growth propaganda is jammed down our throats by the rent seekers.

    To provide pensions and aged care, is simply unsustainable for the Australian economy.

    Fortunately, the baby boomers can alleviate the problem through free market operations, by selling their assets to younger generations as they ought to. They have a very disproportionate amount thereof.




    The sooner this all happens, the better for everyone. I'm sure nobody wants to retire in a crumbling economy.

  4. #44
    The Contrarian Averager So_Cynical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    It's mostly random buddy, a fund that does well one year will probably do poorly the next year, and vice versa.
    Err not really, from memory there are a couple of consistent stand outs, and it really depends on how many investment choices your fund offers and if you have your money or the bulk of it in the "right" choice at the right time.

    There are a heap of funds that still offer 5 or less investment choices.
    Statistics: 127 Closed Trades since July 07, Winning Trades: 103, Losing Trades: 24, Expectancy/$1 Risked: $0.58

  5. #45
    Money can't buy Poverty Glen48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    There is no iron clad guarantee your money/super will be in the bank or your shares safe in 5- 8yrs time.
    The USA Debt clock has had the $ display removed to allow for an extra 0, next year the clock will be replaced with 2 more displays available on the new clock.
    1 second would take 32 yrs to reach 1 billion seconds, 1 trillion would take 31,600 years USA well over 15 trillion in debt.
    Student loans debt is bigger than the Total amount owed in car loans and bank card and has to be repaid as it is money owed to the government until all this is sorted there is no certainty.

  6. #46
    The Contrarian Averager So_Cynical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen48 View Post
    There is no iron clad guarantee your money/super will be in the bank or your shares safe in 5- 8yrs time.
    The USA Debt clock has had the $ display removed to allow for an extra 0, next year the clock will be replaced with 2 more displays available on the new clock.
    1 second would take 32 yrs to reach 1 billion seconds, 1 trillion would take 31,600 years USA well over 15 trillion in debt.
    Student loans debt is bigger than the Total amount owed in car loans and bank card and has to be repaid as it is money owed to the government until all this is sorted there is no certainty.
    Your way to pessimistic Glen...maybe take it easy on the Tanduay

    http://zfacts.com/p/461.html

    Some Debt Facts:
    Social Security is $2.6 trillion in the black. In 2010 it ran a $68 billion surplus.
    Clinton reduced the debt as a percent of GDP.
    G. W. Bush restarted the deficits with tax cuts for the rich.
    Red ink hit a peak rate of $1 trillion in 100 days just before Obama.
    The Obama stimulous was only $0.08 trillion.
    Only $1.2 trillion is owed to China.[1]
    $10 trillion is owed to America.
    Statistics: 127 Closed Trades since July 07, Winning Trades: 103, Losing Trades: 24, Expectancy/$1 Risked: $0.58

  7. #47

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
    This thread feels like it belongs in a Dickens novel, not the 21st century.
    McLovin, julia,
    I am going to amaze myself by going to the defence of star...
    I left my country (France but you can replace by any western europe country) as have a lot of bright/educated ( not me, the others ) youngs for a reason:
    in France the average worker earns less than the average retiree and yet get taxed more;
    retirement is fully pensioned based system: you pay while you work for the existing retiree, and hope to still have young workers ready to pay for you when you are 60, or 65, or 70 or ever.....
    I do believe in a minimum survival government benefit but we still need to allow individual responsibilities; a lot of the media battlers in my opinion are "loosers" who had opportunities again and again and blew them; especially compared to what life is in Europe (and France is not only riviera, Paris glamour and cheese/wine; i have spent some limited time in the ghettos..sorry public housing estates...)
    I see a very nasty trend taking shape with 20y delay here in australia with uncontrolled immigration, and increase of social benefit against higher actual taxation;
    It is hard to find the balance i agree but with the foresight of the Europe experience, how the hell can we(I consider myself fully aussie now) allow to f$$$ it up in the same way, it defies belief
    anyway surprised by star opinion considering the support he gives the current government...

  8. #48

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen48 View Post
    There is no iron clad guarantee your money/super will be in the bank or your shares safe in 5- 8yrs time.
    The USA Debt clock has had the $ display removed to allow for an extra 0, next year the clock will be replaced with 2 more displays available on the new clock.
    1 second would take 32 yrs to reach 1 billion seconds, 1 trillion would take 31,600 years USA well over 15 trillion in debt.
    Student loans debt is bigger than the Total amount owed in car loans and bank card and has to be repaid as it is money owed to the government until all this is sorted there is no certainty.
    I really like you Glenn, I become a diehard optimist when I compare my gloomy views to yours !!
    All good anyway and thanks for your inputs

  9. #49
    Money can't buy Poverty Glen48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    I said nothing about the USA pension scheme,but being cashed up and prepared to cash in when a bargain pops up is the way to make money.
    If you think USA paying $2.5M a second servicing their loan is a good thing and raising the debt ceiling is ok each time the top is reached.

    Having the OZ feds one day say we will take over your pension scheme because we can manage it better than you.
    Having a property that is going down and banks refusing to lend against it then sit back and enjoy, remember when the bargain buys are out there in a few years time you won't be able to cash in.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by qldfrog View Post
    McLovin, julia,
    I am going to amaze myself by going to the defence of star...
    I left my country (France but you can replace by any western europe country) as have a lot of bright/educated ( not me, the others ) youngs for a reason:
    in France the average worker earns less than the average retiree and yet get taxed more;
    That's obviously unfair and unreasonable.

    But I don't quite see how your objection to the French system means that you therefore support SCM's suggestion that there should be no public care for anyone, whether this is medical care for the population at large or a pension for the aged or ill. Plus his suggestion that the very elderly should still be put to work cleaning the streets. Do you really envisage an 85 year old on his walking frame trying to bend down to pick up rubbish?

    I want to see more people taking responsibility for providing for their own care in retirement. I'm sick of the excuses that it's all too hard.
    If someone has a tertiary education, for example, has a demanding job at which he's successful, I'm damned if I can believe it's too hard for him to learn how to manage money for a successful outcome. Yet we see this over and over again.

    But, as I've already suggested, we are not all born with equal capacity and we should always be willing to take care of those who genuinely are unable to make their own way in life.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia View Post
    That's obviously unfair and unreasonable.

    But I don't quite see how your objection to the French system means that you therefore support SCM's suggestion that there should be no public care for anyone, whether this is medical care for the population at large or a pension for the aged or ill. .
    Hi Julia,
    as I wrote: "I do believe in a minimum survival government benefit " but forced super, forced health care: no thanks...
    We (ie working taxpayers, small business owners ) end up as suckers being fleeced to death: why should I be forced to pay any private health cover for example, yet with the tax fine, this is the case, even worse from july.
    And the private health premium adapt to the situation....and i can not even buy health fund shares....
    As for retirement, I avoid putting any money as much as possible (am 45y old): I want to have minimal control on my money, not be told when I am 60 that I can not touch it until what 80, 85 and die rich at work with probably a death duty for the inheritance?
    This is what this whole system leads us to, it is a shame not enough Australian did experience the slow decline of western Europe former powerhouses and satellites...

    But yes we do need a minimal protection net,
    yet no baby bonus, no gold cushion based on age only, driving a car, cheap oil and having the latest flat screen is not an entitlement
    and education should be encouraged with HSEC not based on the parents income; give everyone a fair chance, but do not favorise "loosers" (do not really like that word, should I say battlers as used by ACA style TV ) to the detriments of others.
    Is this far left, far right, or do the extremes join?
    Anyway, nearly philosophical...

  12. #52

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by So_Cynical View Post
    Err not really, from memory there are a couple of consistent stand outs,.
    Name just one.

    Quote Originally Posted by qldfrog View Post
    anyway surprised by star opinion considering the support he gives the current government...
    I don't support any government; and thank you buddy, it is indeed with knowledge of the problems in Europe that I say a lot of the things I say, knowing that the modern welfare state is fast becoming unsustainable, and has in many parts of Europe become merely an invitation for parasites to come to one's country and feed off of it's taxpayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia View Post
    But I don't quite see how your objection to the French system means that you therefore support SCM's suggestion that there should be no public care for anyone, whether this is medical care for the population at large or a pension for the aged or ill. Plus his suggestion that the very elderly should still be put to work cleaning the streets. Do you really envisage an 85 year old on his walking frame trying to bend down to pick up rubbish?
    I feel that this is a slight misrepresentation of my views. I certainly don't want them to work - but if during the first 85 years of their life (okey, let's say 65) they failed to generate enough revenue to sustain themselves, then I do not see why they should be subsidised.

    Also, they do not have to bend down at all Julia - we live in a modern technological world, where they have special equipment provided to pick up rubbish with minimum physical movements.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    Also, they do not have to bend down at all Julia - we live in a modern technological world, where they have special equipment provided to pick up rubbish with minimum physical movements.
    unbelievable

  14. #54
    Calliope's Avatar
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    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    I certainly don't want them to work - but if during the first 85 years of their life (okey, let's say 65) they failed to generate enough revenue to sustain themselves, then I do not see why they should be subsidised.
    Well they are not going to go away, so what do you propose should be done with them?

  15. #55

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    Well they are not going to go away, so what do you propose should be done with them?
    I feel you should not have asked

  16. #56
    Calliope's Avatar
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    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by breaker View Post
    I feel you should not have asked
    I thought maybe a concentration camp?...Gas chambers?...incinerators? This kid is crazy.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    Well they are not going to go away, so what do you propose should be done with them?
    I've already said charities, not sure what else you want.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by qldfrog View Post
    Hi Julia,
    as I wrote: "I do believe in a minimum survival government benefit " but forced super, forced health care: no thanks...
    We (ie working taxpayers, small business owners ) end up as suckers being fleeced to death: why should I be forced to pay any private health cover for example, yet with the tax fine, this is the case, even worse from july.
    And the private health premium adapt to the situation....and i can not even buy health fund shares....
    As for retirement, I avoid putting any money as much as possible (am 45y old): I want to have minimal control on my money, not be told when I am 60 that I can not touch it until what 80, 85 and die rich at work with probably a death duty for the inheritance?
    This is what this whole system leads us to, it is a shame not enough Australian did experience the slow decline of western Europe former powerhouses and satellites...

    But yes we do need a minimal protection net,
    yet no baby bonus, no gold cushion based on age only, driving a car, cheap oil and having the latest flat screen is not an entitlement
    and education should be encouraged with HSEC not based on the parents income; give everyone a fair chance, but do not favorise "loosers" (do not really like that word, should I say battlers as used by ACA style TV ) to the detriments of others.
    Is this far left, far right, or do the extremes join?
    Anyway, nearly philosophical...
    I think we are pretty much of the same mind. I understand your frustration with middle class welfare. I also abhor it. Unfortunately, successive governments have so practised this form of vote buying that people feel it is an entitlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    welfare state is fast becoming unsustainable, and has in many parts of Europe become merely an invitation for parasites to come to one's country and feed off of it's taxpayers.
    There's certainly truth in this. The obvious solution seems to be a more careful selection process as to comes here but the present government is so in thrall to the Greens that they are apparently powerless to stem the endless flow.

    Re the unsustainability of the age pension, this is why the compulsory Super levy is about to be increased. Let's hope that will ensure more people are self funded in retirement in the future.

    I feel that this is a slight misrepresentation of my views. I certainly don't want them to work - but if during the first 85 years of their life (okey, let's say 65) they failed to generate enough revenue to sustain themselves, then I do not see why they should be subsidised.
    Do you make no allowances for those who simply lack capacity? This can be as a result of genetic or social disadvantage, plus physical or mental illness.
    What would you have happen to these people who are, through no fault of their own, unable to work enough to provide financially for themselves?

    (We could, if there were enough political will, create yet another layer of bureaucracy to sort these folk out from those who are just lazy and who make a career of sponging on the taxpayer.)

    Also, they do not have to bend down at all Julia - we live in a modern technological world, where they have special equipment provided to pick up rubbish with minimum physical movements.
    If this were not so sad, it would be funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    Well they are not going to go away, so what do you propose should be done with them?
    +1. Already asked multiple times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    I've already said charities, not sure what else you want.
    You clearly have no idea of the practicalities involved or the dollar numbers involved.
    Who on earth is going to contribute enough to charities to fund the healthcare and pension system? You must be living on some faraway planet.

    Further, charities are great institutions by and large, but they are largely made up of well meaning amateurs. What makes you think they would have even the slightest capacity of administering such a massive system as Australia's healthcare and pensions?

    PS I am irritated at myself for even bothering to engage in this pointless discussion with a kid who has no idea.

  19. #59
    The Contrarian Averager So_Cynical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter View Post
    Name just one.


    • UniSuper
    • Australia Post Superannuation Scheme
    • CBH Superannuation Fund
    • Goldman Sachs & JB Were Superannuation Fund
    • Catholic Super
    • Care Super
    • Hostplus
    • Australian Super
    • MTAA Super


    As i said and the APRA document proves...its not so much the fund but how the member chooses to allocate his/her funds across the investment choices at any particular point in time...anyone with at least 80% of their super money in a cash option between Jan 08 and April 09 and any other Balanced options before and after would not have lost any money.

    As in had a negative YOY balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by APRA super Bulletin 2011
    Superannuation rate of return

    The industry-wide ROR illustrates the (after tax and expenses) change in the value of the superannuation industry investments. For the 15 years to June 2011 the annual industry-wide ROR was typically between —6.8 and 12.9 per cent per annum, with 80 per cent of RORs falling in this range. There were four financial years with a negative ROR over the 15-year period.
    http://www.apra.gov.au/Super/Publica...20Bulletin.pdf
    Statistics: 127 Closed Trades since July 07, Winning Trades: 103, Losing Trades: 24, Expectancy/$1 Risked: $0.58

  20. #60

    Default Re: Average financial intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by So_Cynical View Post

    As i said and the APRA document proves...its not so much the fund but how the member chooses to allocate his/her funds across the investment choices at any particular point in time.
    Exactly. Yet apparently many people are too apathetic to even make such a choice.
    Then they whine about how much money they have lost and make such comments as "Oh, Super is such a con"!

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