Wikileaks - responsible whistleblower or terrorist organisation?

[bellenuit]

I think the real threat to democracy comes from the response of the western governments to the leaking of the diplomatic cables.

By attacking Assange with claims that he has acted criminally in respect to his part in making the information public, the West (their governments) has effectively played in to the hands of China and those other countries that show no respect for democracy or individual freedoms. If Assange is arrested and jailed for his part in the leaks and western governments are complicit in helping the US take this action, what should the West's response be if some overseas Chinese dissident releases information that the Chinese government deems to be sensitive and say was obtained illegally and then requests the extradition of the dissident? How are they to respond to dissidents being arrested and jailed in China on trumped up charges, when the real motivation is to silence them? The West is in danger of ceding the high moral ground by their response to the leaks.

Rudd is correct when he says that the fault is with the US government for employing such lax security for what is very sensitive information, not with JA for helping disseminate the leaked documents. They should live with the consequences of their lax security and strive to fix the problems. Instead they are acting like the Chinese and legitimising that type of behaviour.

[Calliope]

The point in this whole situation is that we should know what our politicians are doing on our behalf. For example, we have Australians putting their lives on the line in Afghanistan. If our politicians are sending our troops overseas in what they really think is an unwinnable fight and some of the troops are being killed (and this is exactly what is happening) and the pollies are telling us otherwise, then in my view this is very wrong.

We didn't need Wikileaks to tell us what we knew already...that Rudd cannot be trusted. Every man and his dog also knows what history has taught us, that the war in Afghanistan is unwinnable.

The whole point of us being there from the perspective of this government and the last, is to curry favour with the Americans, because as a weak country with miniscule forces we need them more than they need us.

Politicians have to consider whether the the loss of a few troops in Afghanistan is a price worth paying for the protective arm of the US fleet and airforce. John Howard managed to get away with it in Iraq with much expense but no loss of lives.

Wikileak's whistleblowing is perfectly legal... if mischievous. I'm not so sure about their efforts to damage companies that do not support them.

[prawn_86]

I'm not so sure about their efforts to damage companies that do not support them.

Its not their efforts. The DOS attacks on Visa et al is being done by a seperate group not affiliated with wikileaks. Funny how people complain about these attacks, yet the wikileaks websites have been under similar attacks from (one presumes) the US government

[Calliope]

Its not their efforts. The DOS attacks on Visa et al is being done by a seperate group not affiliated with wikileaks. Funny how people complain about these attacks, yet the wikileaks websites have been under similar attacks from (one presumes) the US government

OK, Wikileaks supporters then;

At the same time, WikiLeaks supporters have apparently gone on the offensive, staging retaliatory attacks against companies that have cut ties.

On Wednesday, hackers briefly shut down access to the MasterCard website, which announced it had stopped processing donations to the group. Visa has done likewise - and its website was taken down yesterday.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/wikil...209-18rek.html

Wikileaks supporters on these pages, now apparently are putting hackers on a pedestal. Once hackers were seen as the scum of the cyberspace industry. Now when they embarrass politicians, the are regarded as heroes. It wll be a different story when the start infringing on your rights.

[basilio]

Knowledge is power. One of the oldest truisms around and still starkly true.

Right now Wikileaks holds the power. It has 250,000 diplomatic cables of varying sensitivity. So far only 800 have been released and we have seen what sort of stir they have made. And remember Wikileaks and the media who have the documents have been very careful to pull out information that might identify agents, informers, current programs ect.. It has been a slow sanitised release.

But from where the US stands all they can see is the steady drip of influence destroying information that they wrote. Totally undeniable. At present unstoppable.

And even worse than this it seems that the whole sweep of untouched files is now sitting on 100,000 computers awaiting the cyber key that will expose every piece of information previously sent around the world. So Wikileaks has a very firm hold of the family jewels and if Assange has any sort of accident the US government will be collectively singing in the Popes choir.*

As a real time super spy mini series I think this is panning out exceptionally well. Does anyone have any thoughts on the next episode ?


* The castrati.

[basilio]

I thought this a particularly sobering story about America that might explain much of the potential embarrassment in store for that country.

The US kidnap an innocent German citizen whose name just happens to be the same as a wanted terrorist, he is subject to rendition to the middle east where he is tortured and sodomized by his torturers and then eventually - when the US finally work out that he is not the man they want - he is dumped by the roadside in Albania.

The US government then applies political pressure to the German government not to arrest the CIA operatives responsible for this crime and even a country as rich an powerful as Germany bows down and does nothing to protect its citizens.

This case – regarding Khaled El Masari is well known in Germany – read about it here.

http://www.aclu.org/national-securit...-and-rendition

Given how the US government arranges the torture of innocent people and then pressures the German government to do nothing to the prepetrators, anyone who thinks the arrest and detention of Julian Assange for "holding a person down forcefully with his arms" and failing to use a condom during consensual intercourse is not politically motivated is a naive fool.

I call on the Swedish people to hold their government to account. Try Assagne on the charges in Sweden by all means, but do not allow his extradition to America where he will become a political prisoner subject to torture and possibly even execution.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...world-reaction

[Solly]

[Garpal Gumnut]

I am resting tonight at the Picnic Bay Hotel in Nelly Bay , Magnetic Island, discussing young Julian Assanges exploits here.

I remember him and his mum well.

He is a fine example of the free and open minded Queenslander, never afraid to expose the perfidy of big guvment both here in Queensland, wider Australia, the USA and the World.

Good on him.

A victory for the ordinary person and a lesson for our betters such as Rudd, Hillri, and Arbib.

I must leave as six scantily clad lasses from a Carlton Light promotion are disrobing me to reattire me in red Carlton Light , top, jocks and sunhat.

It is a tough life being from Townsville and Maggie Island, as poor Julian in a dingy Wandsworth now realises.

Long live freedom of information and the disrobing of our betters.

gg

[wayneL]

OK, Wikileaks supporters then;



http://www.smh.com.au/national/wikil...209-18rek.html

Wikileaks supporters on these pages, now apparently are putting hackers on a pedestal. Once hackers were seen as the scum of the cyberspace industry. Now when they embarrass politicians, the are regarded as heroes. It wll be a different story when the start infringing on your rights.

It's a bit like guns isn't it. You can use one to rob/murder some poor schmuck or you can use one to defend your family from a murderous thug.

[$20shoes]

For better or worse, Wikileaks has forced us to look at the ugly side of politics, and we have to some extent been taken as unprepared and unwilling hostages, begging a very personal question - "From this day forth, does silencing Wikileaks make me complicit"?

I think it is going to be terribly destabilising, but I think it's too late to turn back.

----------------------------------
With charges over Ibrahim looking like a set up job, Rudd must be squirming once again. Will he last?


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Another:

The documents also show the extent to which the German government cooperated with the US, seeking only to present the appearance of opposition to placate popular hostility to the kidnapping of El-Masri.

El-Masri, 44, a German citizen of Lebanese descent, says he was illegally detained by CIA agents while entering Macedonia on New Year's Eve 2003 and then transferred to a CIA-run prison in Afghanistan, where he says he was beaten, sodomized and injected with drugs.

Another cable originating from the U.S. Embassy in Berlin in 2007 cites the deputy chief of mission, John M. Koenig, as telling the German deputy national security adviser that issuing warrants for the agents "would have a negative impact on our bilateral relationship."
------------------------------------

[DB008]

basilio
there have been several suggestions that these documents were leaked to him (WikiLeaks) on purpose so that the USA could implement the iPatriot act.

Also, the USA also debated in the senate about an "Internet Kill Switch" recently, which has also been approved.

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/...0618-yln6.html

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.ph..._senate_panel/

[Garpal Gumnut]

Some of my takes on Assange and Wikileaks :


Some may die because of the leaks.

A similar number would have died through the actions (exposed in wikileaks) of the bumbling, bad, boring and rorting elites who are in power throughout the world, irrespective of the leaks.

The US having some of the greatest universities in the world, alas also has a greater proportion of the fools of the world.

The leaks will crystallise in peoples minds those who are in the main good operators, and those who are bad, e.g. I have long been a supporter of Palin, but now see her as a reactionary fool unable to deal with the changed world order that will follow from the leaks.

The Saudi and Emirate leaders as usual come out looking like sordid small dick pissants who have collectively had a large lotto payout and the minds and bodies of trailer trash, their habits and peccadilloes.

In Australia the ALP , by persecuting Assange, will go down further in the eyes of the Left of their party, who seem to have the only remnants of the ethic of a once great political force.

The Libs will gloat and try to stay below the radar and bubble to the surface before the next election and win.

gg

[Julia]

, e.g. I have long been a supporter of Palin, but now see her as a reactionary fool unable to deal with the changed world order that will follow from the leaks.

Are you serious about having been a Palin supporter? I can't believe it!

[white_crane]

Palin is HOT

[Garpal Gumnut]

Are you serious about having been a Palin supporter? I can't believe it!

Julia, I started the barracuda thread. I've known many strong beautiful downndirty huntin fishin women, unafraid to lead, and I thought she was one of these and was willing because she was beautiful to forgive her earlier faux pas'.

I'm a man for gawd sake. Of course I supported her.

gg

[inq]

Gotta laugh at the oldie's who don't know who Anonymous are, thinking they are or majorly affiliated with Wikileaks.

Anon - The same group who also made protests and targetted attacks against The Australian ISP filter proposal, Scientology, Iranian presidential election protests etc.

For those interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)

[noco]

Things are certainly hotting up between Gillard and Rudd over Assange. Rudd has virtually told Gillard to BUT OUT.

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermail..._from_gillard/

[sails]

Gotta laugh at the oldie's who don't know who Anonymous are, thinking they are or majorly affiliated with Wikileaks....

lol - which oldies???

Oh and "oldies" doesn't have an apostrophe in this context...

[nomore4s]

Julia, I started the barracuda thread. I've known many strong beautiful downndirty huntin fishin women, unafraid to lead, and I thought she was one of these and was willing because she was beautiful to forgive her earlier faux pas'.

I'm a man for gawd sake. Of course I supported her.

gg

lol, no wonder you've been married 22 times

[hangseng]

I say responsible whistleblower but its amazing how many people disagree.

The more transperancy the better imo

I agree prawn_86, with a disclaimer on 'seriously' sensitive country and security information, that should never be publicly disclosed.

The rest of the trash should be disclosed. If these people don't want to have their embarrassing slurs against others put out to public then simply don't say what they do. If they are going to say something personal about others (whether right or wrong), then expect to be answerable for it.

I also believe the time has come to amend the diplomatic immunity laws. Why should they be immune to a countries laws and literally flaunt that "right" at will.

Interestingly, Australia is one of the few countries in the world that will pay local fines imposed on diplomatic staff. We have people killed in Aus by these high profile diplomats that simply walk away without penalty and pay nothing for their misdemeanour.

Wikilieaks has exposed some of them for what they are IMO. Maybe now they will be more careful what they say and do and act responsibly as we expect and pay them to...as the world is watching them and they don't like it one bit.

Same as our pollies in parliament that carry on like spoilt brats in a shool yard.