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  1. #1

    Thumbs down Standards are Slipping

    Is it just me or has the standards of service begun to slip further down the slope of GAF (Gives a F@ck) attitude? Let me explain further:-

    Supposedly quality restaurant:- Waiter brings out food and instead of carrying plate from underneath has it in the pincer grip with his THUMB totally ruining my duck ala ronge. Then as the Pièce de résistance he reaches across me from the right hand side to serve the meal!!!!! Followed by filling my wine glass nearly to the brim and totally stuffing the bouquet of the Wolf Blass Black Label 1998, Jimmy Watson Trophy winning nectar of the Gods. Now this is the high end of the market place we are talking here.

    Well known branded Clothing outlet:- Looking very obvious that I wish to be served and observing the staff tell each other how smashed they got the night before and how they should not be at work because they are massively hungover. Finally catch the eye of the sales assistant who comes over and says "CAN I HELP YOU" as if I was a piece of dog sh!t she has just noticed on her shoe. "Well, yes you can, I would like to buy this jacket but I notice that you do not have one in my size. Is there any chance you can contact the city store and see if they have my size?" .... painful look on face "NUP, what we got here is all that is in stock". Delightedly, I left the store, jumped into my car, went to the city store and lo and behold there was the same jacket in my size. Service for you. This is the lower end of the market place.

    If you are paying for the service then that is exactly what I want ... SERVICE. I do not think I am asking for too much. The old "Yes sir, this suit will ride up with wear" days are GONE. Is it too much to ask to have a certain modicum of standards?

    Does anyone have similar experiences when it comes to this kind of thing? Or is it just me?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by trainspotter View Post
    Is it just me or has the standards of service begun to slip further down the slope of GAF (Gives a F@ck) attitude? Let me explain further:-

    Supposedly quality restaurant:- Waiter brings out food and instead of carrying plate from underneath has it in the pincer grip with his THUMB totally ruining my duck ala ronge. Then as the Pièce de résistance he reaches across me from the right hand side to serve the meal!!!!! Followed by filling my wine glass nearly to the brim and totally stuffing the bouquet of the Wolf Blass Black Label 1998, Jimmy Watson Trophy winning nectar of the Gods. Now this is the high end of the market place we are talking here.

    Well known branded Clothing outlet:- Looking very obvious that I wish to be served and observing the staff tell each other how smashed they got the night before and how they should not be at work because they are massively hungover. Finally catch the eye of the sales assistant who comes over and says "CAN I HELP YOU" as if I was a piece of dog sh!t she has just noticed on her shoe. "Well, yes you can, I would like to buy this jacket but I notice that you do not have one in my size. Is there any chance you can contact the city store and see if they have my size?" .... painful look on face "NUP, what we got here is all that is in stock". Delightedly, I left the store, jumped into my car, went to the city store and lo and behold there was the same jacket in my size. Service for you. This is the lower end of the market place.

    If you are paying for the service then that is exactly what I want ... SERVICE. I do not think I am asking for too much. The old "Yes sir, this suit will ride up with wear" days are GONE. Is it too much to ask to have a certain modicum of standards?

    Does anyone have similar experiences when it comes to this kind of thing? Or is it just me?

    LOL i see that you went to "lattitude 28" .......... tis a worry

  3. #3

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Staff in general:- Ooooooooh the little treasures they are, underpaid and overworked, they regularly whine like an Italian jumbo jet with a loose fanbelt that the conditions they work in are horrible. When something breaks the answer is "I dunno, I just touched it and it broke all by itself" is a favourite of mine. "I have been here three months, when do I get a pay rise?" is another. OMFG !
    Last edited by trainspotter; 15th-August-2009 at 02:09 PM. Reason: added inverted commas

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Trainspotter if life is so tough, why don't you switch places with the common peasants you are being served by that are earning minimum wage?

    Oh but then you won't be able to afford Wolf Blass Black Label 1998, so you'll have to find something else to complain about (and you wouldn't have the time to make 18 posts on ASF every day)

    There are HEAPS of hard working ppl out there - but the catch is, you have to pay them enough...

    PS. I once worked in retail (whilst trying to decide what to do next). I asked for a pay rise after 3 months, and I got it But the difference was my employer knew it would end up costing him more to replace me because he wasn't going to be able to find someone who was going to make him as much money as I did...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    Trainspotter if life is so tough, why don't you switch places with the common peasants you are being served by that are earning minimum wage?

    Oh but then you won't be able to afford Wolf Blass Black Label 1998, so you'll have to find something else to complain about

    There are HEAPS of hard working ppl out there - but the catch is, you have to pay them enough...

    PS. I once worked in retail (whilst trying to decide what to do next). I asked for a pay rise after 3 months, and I got it But the difference was my employer knew it would end up costing him more to replace me because he wasn't going to be able to find someone who was going to make him as much money as I did...
    You seem to be missing what the thread is about there my good man Gav.

    If the restaurant is purporting themselves in the market place as a "superior dining experience" then I expect the staff to be trained adequately to back up their claims.

    I was at the pointy end, meet and greet, at the coal face sales trash for 20 years, my learned colleague and attended many sales courses to "improve" my skills. I have the experience to be able to critique the levels of service I receive in day to day life experiences.

    AS I pay ALL my staff over and above the requirements set down by the unions and the law I am more than happy to accomodate them if they show some initiative and not break things or leave cabinets open during stocktake to allow expensive jewellery to be stolen.

    What I am trying to get at is that it appears to me that the average punter in the street is ACCEPTING the inferior service we get dished up to us on a cold platter all day every day whether it be restaurants, retail outlets, petrol stations, wherever a transaction takes place. This place is full of ASFers explaining their BAD experiences with their brokers/online systems/whatever.

    IT IS ALL ABOUT THE SERVICE ... or lack thereof I am commenting on.

    P.S. I note my post rate has dropped form 22 to 18 over the last 2 weeks. I must be busy !!
    Last edited by trainspotter; 15th-August-2009 at 03:32 PM. Reason: added a P.S.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    I couldn't agree more. The mistake I have made is living in Japan for too long.Once you have done that you can't come back and tolerate
    australian concepts of "service". And it's got nothing to do with how much we are paid, we just don't get it as our complete lack of refinement and willingness to admit we are deficient precludes us from improving.

    I know, I know "if I dont like why dont I just p*ss off then". And that (all pervasive Australian response to any form of criticism) is exactly why we will stay the way we are.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Amen Surfer35. Amen.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    Trainspotter if life is so tough, why don't you switch places with the common peasants you are being served by that are earning minimum wage?
    This response just shows how the world is changing. There were always poorly paid people in society, many years ago conditions would've been even worse than they are now, yet the standards back then were much higher. Why? Probably because people used to have pride in their work. Pride in the way they conduct themselves. Regardless of what you get paid, there is a certain intrinsic value that comes from doing a job to the best of your ability. People these days care less and less about what they do or how it impacts others. It's people's own personal standards that are slipping and it's reflected in the quality of their work.

    Of course the employer also needs to put the right person in the job and train them appropriately. The right person for the job just might cost more than minimum wage, but they should be willing to work for that extra pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    There are HEAPS of hard working ppl out there - but the catch is, you have to pay them enough...
    This makes is sound like if you pay someone enough they'll be hard workers. I don't believe so. The people who take no pride in their work and can't be bothered putting in the effort required to advance themselves tend to remain on minimum wage. A slacker is a slacker, pay them more and you just get a well paid slacker. These are also the ones who seem to think they don't get paid enough and should get an increase in exchange for... nothing. The hard workers are the ones that tend to find their way out from the bottom of the pile.

    Yes there may be exceptions to the rule. And just because you work hard doesn't mean you get anywhere. Nobody said life was fair, but people can't complain about having nothing if they aren't willing to put in the time and effort required to achieve something.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    No worries Trainspotter, I was only taking the p!ss (hence my little emoticons but it can be hard to tell when someone is taking the micky on an internet forum ) When there are so many problems in the world it seems a bit trivial to read about someone complaining that their expensive wine wasn't poured correctly... (this is another joke)

    I never meant to infer that you paid your employees minimum wage, nor that you don't know what it's like to work hard for a lower wage. But many, many companies do. eg. try talking to a customer representative from Telstra. As you'd know many businesses are under the pump to increase profits every year, and sadly it seems to come at a cost to customer service.

    But more important than complaining about it, what can be done to improve customer service? Did you ask to speak to the owner or manager of the restaurant? What was their response?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    This response just shows how the world is changing. There were always poorly paid people in society, many years ago conditions would've been even worse than they are now, yet the standards back then were much higher. Why? Probably because people used to have pride in their work. Pride in the way they conduct themselves. Regardless of what you get paid, there is a certain intrinsic value that comes from doing a job to the best of your ability. People these days care less and less about what they do or how it impacts others. It's people's own personal standards that are slipping and it's reflected in the quality of their work.

    Of course the employer also needs to put the right person in the job and train them appropriately. The right person for the job just might cost more than minimum wage, but they should be willing to work for that extra pay.
    Well maybe the 'poorly paid' people in society are no longer willing to work their asses off for the financial well being of those 'well off' in society? Why should someone on a minimum wage struggling to pay the bills and feed themselves care about their rich bosses company, when the boss couldn't care less about them? - I should note this is not my own personal attitude, but I can completely understand why this attitude has formed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    This makes is sound like if you pay someone enough they'll be hard workers. I don't believe so. The people who take no pride in their work and can't be bothered putting in the effort required to advance themselves tend to remain on minimum wage. A slacker is a slacker, pay them more and you just get a well paid slacker. These are also the ones who seem to think they don't get paid enough and should get an increase in exchange for... nothing. The hard workers are the ones that tend to find their way out from the bottom of the pile.

    Yes there may be exceptions to the rule. And just because you work hard doesn't mean you get anywhere. Nobody said life was fair, but people can't complain about having nothing if they aren't willing to put in the time and effort required to achieve something.
    All valid points. But I never said that you could simply pay someone more and they'd be hard workers. And where did I say you should pay slackers more? You are arguing points I never made. Look at the quote you responded to - "There are HEAPS of hard working ppl out there - but the catch is, you have to pay them enough..."

    I've never been a business owner, so I don't how difficult employing the right person for your business actually is. But I am a hard worker, and I do know how difficult it is to find a job that actually pays you well for working hard.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Gav, let me start with an apology. Reading my post it looks more like a rant directed at you. It was not meant to be. I was traveling all last night and haven't slept for 35 hours or something, I shouldn't have posted in that state. So let me finish what I started and I'll leave you alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    Well maybe the 'poorly paid' people in society are no longer willing to work their asses off for the financial well being of those 'well off' in society?
    I'm sure minimum wage earners don't want to work their asses off every day so someone else can make a tidy profit. Same as I work hard every day for a very small percentage of the profit my employer makes. But unless you have what it takes to be your own boss that's the world we live in. Your options are to either start your own business or find a way to make yourself more valuable to an employer. I've worked in a job where working harder than other people got you nowhere. Now I work in a job where hard work results in good rewards. So I understand the frustration of working hard to get nowhere. But if they stop trying they will never succeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    Why should someone on a minimum wage struggling to pay the bills and feed themselves care about their rich bosses company, when the boss couldn't care less about them?
    They don't have to care about how well they do their job if they are happy to stay where they are. But why should an employer offer a pay increase or training to an employee who doesn't care about their job? Certainly, hard work does not guarantee results, but giving up seldom achieves anything. Of course, there is the chance they've given up trying in their job and are currently doing part time study to get their foot in the door somewhere else. You can't judge a person just by what you can see on the surface.


    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    All valid points. But I never said that you could simply pay someone more and they'd be hard workers. And where did I say you should pay slackers more? You are arguing points I never made. Look at the quote you responded to - "There are HEAPS of hard working ppl out there - but the catch is, you have to pay them enough..."
    Sorry, my mistake. I read that as "you need to pay the hard workers enough money before they'll show you what they can really do" rather than what you obviously meant "If you want to attract the hard workers you need to pay enough to lure them into the position".

    Now that all done. Just food for thought. As I said, I shouldn't have posted. It's just these days there are many people with the idea that the world owes them something and that someone should give it to them without them having to put in the effort. That's what I think when I see people who don't care to do their job properly.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    People in retail do have to deal with some idiots sometimes.

    Here's a website to check out for a laugh http://notalwaysright.com

    No excuse for your situation though.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Hey Gav ... I completely understood the tone of your response. It matters not if the wine is expensive or otherwise. It matters not if the people I employ are overpaid for their job description which most of them manage to tick the boxes in the correct fashion. The "correct" procedures are required to make the experience a memorable one. My main thrust of this point of objecture is that the Aussie "She'll be right mate" attitude is pervading the corridors of service to a point where it is now becoming socially acceptable. I am paying for a "service" to be provided and the attitude that somehow I am asking for more than what I am paying for is really giving me the irrits lately.

    Nothing more , nothing less. It seems to me that our standards have slipped to the point whereby it resembles a trip to "Fawlty Towers" and somehow I should be paying for the privilege of being served.

  14. #14
    Money can't buy Poverty Glen48's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Subject: You Can't Fix stupid


    >
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > We had to have the garage door repaired. The Sears repairman
    told us that one of our problems was that we did not have a
    'large'enough motor on the opener. I thought for a minute, and said that
    we had the largest one Sears made at that time, a 1/2 horsepower. He
    shook his head and said, "Lady, you need a 1/4 horsepower." I responded
    that 1/2 was larger than 1/4. He said, "NO, it's not.. Four is larger
    than two..."
    >
    > We haven't used Sears repair since.
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > My daughter and I went through the McDonald's take-out window
    and I gave the clerk a $5 bill. Our total was $4.25, so I also handed
    her a quarter. She said, "You gave me too much money." I said, "Yes I
    know, but this way you can just give me a dollar bill back." She sighed
    and went to get the manager who asked me to repeat my request. I did so,
    and he handed me back the quarter, and said "We're sorry but we cannot
    do that kind of thing." The clerk then proceeded to give me back $1 and
    75 cents in change..
    >
    > Do not confuse the clerks at McD's.
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > I live in a semi rural area. We recently had a new neighbor
    call the local township administrative office to request the removal of
    the DEER CROSSING sign on our road. The reason: "Too many deer are being
    hit by cars out here! I don't think this is a good place for them to be
    crossing anymore."
    >
    > From Kingman , KS .
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING IN FOOD SERVICE:
    >
    > My daughter went to a local Taco Bell and ordered a taco. She
    asked the person behind the counter for 'minimal lettuce.' He said he
    was sorry, but they only had iceberg lettuce..
    >
    > From Kansas City
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > I was at the airport, checking in at the gate when an airport
    employee asked, "Has anyone put anything in your baggage without your
    knowledge?" To which I replied, "If it was without my knowledge, how
    would I know?" He smiled knowingly and nodded, "That's why we ask."
    >
    > Happened in Birmingham , Ala.
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > The stoplight on the corner buzzes when it's safe to cross the
    street. I was crossing with an intellectually challenged coworker of
    mine. She asked if I knew what the buzzer was for. I explained that it
    signals blind people when the light is red. Appalled, she responded,
    "What on earth are blind people doing driving?!"
    >
    > She was a probation officer in Wichita , KS
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > We were having a good-bye luncheon for an old and dear
    coworker, as she was leaving the company due to 'downsizing.' Our
    manager commented cheerfully, "This is fun. We should do this more
    often." Not another word was spoken. We all just looked at each other
    with that deer-in-the-headlights stare. This was a lunch at Texas
    Instruments.
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > I work with an individual who plugged her power strip back
    into itself and for the sake of her life, couldn't understand why her
    system would not turn on.. A deputy with the Dallas County Sheriff's
    office, no less.
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTING:
    >
    > When my husband and I arrived at an automobile dealership to
    pick up our car, we were told the keys had been locked in it. We went to
    the service department and found a mechanic working feverishly to unlock
    the driver side door. As I watched from the passenger side, I
    instinctively tried the door handle and discovered that it was unlocked.
    "Hey," I announced to the technician, "It's open!" His reply, "I know. I
    already got that side. This was at the Ford dealership in Canton , MS
    >
    >
    >
    > IDIOT SIGHTINGS:
    >
    > When I left Hawaii and was transferred to Florida , I still
    had the Hawaiian plates on my car, as my car was shipped from Hawaii . I
    was parking somewhere (I can't remember) and a guy asked me "Wow, you
    drove from Hawaii to here?" I looked at him and quickly said "Yep. I
    took the Hawaii/San Francisco Bridge". He nodded his head and said,
    "Cool"!
    >
    >
    >
    > STAY ALERT! They walk among us... they REPRODUCE.......... and
    they vote

  15. #15

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfer35 View Post
    I couldn't agree more. The mistake I have made is living in Japan for too long.Once you have done that you can't come back and tolerate
    australian concepts of "service". And it's got nothing to do with how much we are paid, we just don't get it as our complete lack of refinement and willingness to admit we are deficient precludes us from improving.

    I know, I know "if I dont like why dont I just p*ss off then". And that (all pervasive Australian response to any form of criticism) is exactly why we will stay the way we are.
    An excellent post. I agree wholeheartedly.


    Trainspotter, yes service is dropping. It's unfortunate that my favourite weekend breakfast haunt in the hills (a cafe that sells fuel) has better service than a lot of Far North Qld restaurants.


    cheers,

  16. #16

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    This response just shows how the world is changing. There were always poorly paid people in society, many years ago conditions would've been even worse than they are now, yet the standards back then were much higher. Why? Probably because people used to have pride in their work. Pride in the way they conduct themselves. Regardless of what you get paid, there is a certain intrinsic value that comes from doing a job to the best of your ability. People these days care less and less about what they do or how it impacts others. It's people's own personal standards that are slipping and it's reflected in the quality of their work.

    Of course the employer also needs to put the right person in the job and train them appropriately. The right person for the job just might cost more than minimum wage, but they should be willing to work for that extra pay.



    This makes is sound like if you pay someone enough they'll be hard workers. I don't believe so. The people who take no pride in their work and can't be bothered putting in the effort required to advance themselves tend to remain on minimum wage. A slacker is a slacker, pay them more and you just get a well paid slacker. These are also the ones who seem to think they don't get paid enough and should get an increase in exchange for... nothing. The hard workers are the ones that tend to find their way out from the bottom of the pile.

    Yes there may be exceptions to the rule. And just because you work hard doesn't mean you get anywhere. Nobody said life was fair, but people can't complain about having nothing if they aren't willing to put in the time and effort required to achieve something.
    You later apologised for this post. I can't see why you would. It's realistic and a top summary of the concept of service in any sphere of employment.
    Great post.

    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post

    But more important than complaining about it, what can be done to improve customer service? Did you ask to speak to the owner or manager of the restaurant? What was their response?
    This is a really good point. Unless you discussed your dissatisfaction with the owner/manager, they are not aware of the poor behaviour of their staff.
    I agree with you that you should be reasonably able to expect correct service of food and wine at a top restaurant.

    I'd be very surprised if the owner/manager didn't thank you for bringing this to his/her attention.

    At the same time, I think we should also bring to the attention of business owners any occasion where we receive excellent service. This pleases the owner, and provides positive reinforcement to the employee for the good job they are doing.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by trainspotter View Post
    "Well, yes you can, I would like to buy this jacket but I notice that you do not have one in my size. Is there any chance you can contact the city store and see if they have my size?" .... painful look on face "NUP, what we got here is all that is in stock". Delightedly, I left the store, jumped into my car, went to the city store and lo and behold there was the same jacket in my size. Service for you. This is the lower end of the market place.
    :
    Quote Originally Posted by trainspotter View Post

    What I am trying to get at is that it appears to me that the average punter in the street is ACCEPTING the inferior service we get dished up to us on a cold platter all day every day whether it be restaurants, retail outlets, petrol stations, wherever a transaction takes place.
    Didn't you go to the city store and get the jacket there? Seems as though when you refer to the "average punter in the street is accepting the inferior service", you are talking about yourself"

    Personally, crap service, I walk. Went to Tetsuyas in Sydney when it was in Rozelle ages ago. Best meal I ever had. Went to the the new premises with some friends. Waiter spilt most of a bottle of decent red over me and the table. OK, not great, but these things happen. Replaced it with a bottle of the cheap house red and still charged me for the original bottle. And then they scowled at me when I did not leave a tip. Never went there again.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Average punter in the street would have accepted the sales trash cr@p response and not bothered to go to city store Gooner. By having the Aussie attitude of "walking" does not make their service any better. Talking to management does not make things any better. They don't give a stuff. This is the Aussie way.

    They need training in customer service from the top of the ladder down. And I am not talking about going on retreat camps for team building exercises. I am talking about basic training of manners like "Good morning, is there anything I can help you with today Sir?" and "Excellent choice Sir, I will get that from the cellar and decant it immediately" and not having to ask for the sales trash to serve you perhaps!!!! C'mon Aussie C'Mon.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    Customer service is **** in Australia. It's the attitude that the customer is a bother. I bought books form a shop and the staff didn't say a thing just the price. No "thank you".

    But some little country famiy run biusinesses give good wervice.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Standards are Slipping

    I've got to say I can empathise with the clothing store thing. Particularly the 'aussie surfing apparel' emporiums. How anybody ever manages to distract a member of the sales teams away from looking at themselves in the mirror long enough to actually serve somebody I'll never figure out.
    Don't take investment advice from seafood.



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