When it involves Hicks or that Dr Haneff, Guantanamo Bay / Iraq or America in general, the lefties are all up in arms... but when it comes to real Human rights abuse such as in China, all is silent....
When it involves Hicks or that Dr Haneff, Guantanamo Bay / Iraq or America in general, the lefties are all up in arms... but when it comes to real Human rights abuse such as in China, all is silent....
there have already been a few boycotts over the years - eg Moscow, - where Lisa Forrest was a rebel. I notice she's written a book. (recently?)
Heard her on the ABC saying "There was a proposal back a while there, that all games should be held in Athens."While in Year 11 at high school Lisa captained the Australian swimming team to the 1980 Moscow Olympics - one of a small band of high profile athletes that led the campaign to defy Malcolm Fraser's Federal Government in its attempt to support the US-led boycott of those Games. Facing death threats, falling public support and withdrawal of vital sponsorship funds Australia nevertheless made it to Moscow. But the campaign to get there took its toll. Lisa failed to win the expected Olympic medal in her pet event, the 200m backstroke, in dramatic fashion. In more ways than one the Moscow Olympics would be a defining moment in her career.
I think she said she'd have been in favour.
PS So she lost to the Russian / East German whatever swimmers - ? in the 1980 games? big deal!
I wonder how many of those swimmers are alive today, given the growth hormones etc they were doped up on?
I bet you also think that Chinese secret communist police kills unborn babies if a mother has already got one child. It is no wonder that the average Westerner see China as a backward nation.
Every little thing that can make Asia look bad is blown out of proportion. The toy recall incident comes to mind, and that wasn't even the Chinese's fault, it was Fisher Price trying to cut their costs.
What of USA use of torture and Australia's handling of refugees? How many innocent people were killed as a result of the US invasion of Iraq? Do we boycott the USA too? And what about the many more that die in Africa everyday due to western sponsored civil wars?
Dalai Lama only gets all the western media coverage because he is a hollywood celebrity in Asia spreading western influences. According to wikipedia:
So if you look outside American news outlets on coverage of what is happening right now in Tibet you will find the other side of the story. Can you see why it is in their interest to distort the events happening in Tibet?In October 1998, the Dalai Lama's administration acknowledged that it received US$1.7 million a year in the 1960s from the U.S. Government through the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), and had also trained a resistance movement in Colorado, (USA).
Last edited by juw177; 24th-March-2008 at 05:38 PM.
Yeah i read a few articles on the 1951 seventeen point agreement signed (some reports of under duress) to allowing the PLA into Tibet.This Sino-Tibetan agreement is what much of the present day contreversy is about i.m.o.With the Dalai Lama in India wanting return of independance to Tibetan people.
There is a bit of history going back to when the Mongols were dominant in Asia before the Chinese dynasties took hold.The land and the relationships between the ruling parties of the time.I`m all for an independant Tibet but them Chinese reckon it`s theirs.
It goes back a fair way ..
The Indian archeologist V. N. Misra has shown that early humans inhabited the Tibetan Plateau from at least twenty thousand years ago and that there is reason to believe that early humans passed through Tibet at the time India was first inhabited, half a million years ago
Last edited by Wysiwyg; 24th-March-2008 at 06:15 PM.
1. Is China in the wrong in Tibet? certainly if they are shooting protestors.
2. Should we blackball their goods? ( yeah right - clear out the shelves of all the stores for starters)
3. Should we ask the sportspeople of the country to be our conscience? and the only ones to ACT! - of course not.
4. Combining the above, would we be totally hypocritical to a) buy "Made in China", whilst at the same time b) telling our sportsmen that WE think THEY shouldn't partake in a 4-yearly SPORTING event.
Well on this map (accuracy???) of 1200 years ago it certainly has taken over a large piece of land in the region.1. Is China in the wrong in Tibet?
Yes most certainly.Protest violence and death happens in many countries and is not condoned.certainly if they are shooting protestors
Absolutely not but if Tiananmen Square happened recently how could anyone support such horror by attending.How much is enough.3. Should we ask the sportspeople of the country to be our conscience?
don't we all happily support the same horror when we buy "Made in China"?
or trade with them? sell them ore etc?
ok for businessmen because everyone knows they have no morals?
not ok for sportsmen?
Also - many don't condone what USA and UK and AUS did in going into Iraq. So? - would they be entitled to boycott the Sydney Games , if they were this year instead of 2000?
PS I notice China is sending a "second flame" through Tibet to Mt Everest.
I guess the chances of it getting through Tibet alight is a bit slim - so better to "divide the forces" - "divide the torch" so to speak
As for the general Tibetan situation and the murders - disgusting! - no question!China vows strict security for torch relay
Posted 6 hours 26 minutes ago
China will impose strict security on the Olympic Games torch relay through restive Tibet to Mount Everest, as the Government seeks to prevent any protests upsetting the symbolic show of national unity.
The torch to light the flame of the 2008 Games will be lit in Greece later today and arrive in the host city Beijing on March 31 to start a relay that passes through a number of countries.
A separate flame will go to mountainous Tibet in an attempt to take it to the top of Everest at 8,848 metres above sea level on a day in May when the weather looks best.
Here's a youtube video if you haven't already seen it
PS Dalai Lama continues to say the Tibetans simply want "meaningful autonomy" - not independence. Some of the students / monks have been going beyond that , and Dalai Lama has recently threatened to resign (again)
Chinese massacres in Tibet. Shooting at Tibetan pilgrims
PS Origins of the word boycott?
(not a particularly nice bloke - in Irish eyes anyway)
goes back to the fall of feudalism in Ireland
'Boycott" has been translated into many languages
"On December 1, 1880 Captain Boycott left his post and withdrew to England, with his family."Word History: Charles C. Boycott seems to have become a household word because of his strong sense of duty to his employer. An Englishman and former British soldier, Boycott was the estate agent of the Earl of Erne in County Mayo, Ireland. The earl was one of the absentee landowners who as a group held most of the land in Ireland. Boycott was chosen in the fall of 1880 to be the test case for a new policy advocated by Charles Parnell, an Irish politician who wanted land reform. Any landlord who would not charge lower rents or any tenant who took over the farm of an evicted tenant would be given the complete cold shoulder by Parnell's supporters.
Boycott refused to charge lower rents and ejected his tenants. At this point members of Parnell's Irish Land League stepped in, and Boycott and his family found themselves isolated—without servants, farmhands, service in stores, or mail delivery. Boycott's name was quickly adopted as the term for this treatment, not just in English but in other languages such as French, Dutch, German, and Russian.
Boycotts ( and Girlcotts )
Arguably illegal in USA in some circumstances anyway.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott
Although the term itself was not coined until 1880, the practice dates back to at least 1830, when the National Negro Convention encouraged a boycott of slave-produced goods.
Other instances of boycotts are their use by African Americans during the US civil rights movement;
the United Farm Workers union grape and lettuce boycotts;
the American boycott of British goods at the time of the American Revolution;
the Indian boycott of British goods organized by Mohandas Gandhi;
the successful Jewish boycott organised against Henry Ford in the USA, in the 1920s;
the Jewish anti-Nazi boycott of German goods in Lithuania, the USA, Britain and Poland during 1933;
the antisemitic boycott of Jewish-owned businesses in Nazi Germany during the 1930s
and the Arab League boycott of Israel and companies trading with Israel.
In 1973, the Arab countries enacted a crude oil embargo against the West, see 1973 oil crisis.
Other examples includes
the United States boycott (under President Jimmy Carter) to participate in the 1980 Summer Olympics, held in Moscow that year (to protest the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan),
the boycott of the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles by Soviet Union (for security reasons - stating that "chauvinistic sentiments and an anti-Soviet hysteria being whipped up in the United States") and following 14 Eastern bloc countries,
and the movement that advocated "disinvestment" in South Africa during the 1980s in opposition to that country's apartheid regime.
The first Olympic boycott was in 1956 Summer Olympics with several countries boycotting the games for different reasons.
American track star Lacey O'Neal coined the term 'girlcott' in the context of the protests by male African American athletes during the 1968 Olympic Games in Mexico City. Speaking for Black women athletes, she advised that the group would not "girlcott" the Olympic Games as they were still focused on being recognized.
"Girlcott" appeared in Time magazine in 1970, and then later was used by retired tennis player Billie Jean King in The Times in reference to Wimbledon to emphasize her argument regarding equal pay for women players.
"The first Olympic boycott was in 1956 Summer Olympics with several countries boycotting the games for different reasons." - hey that was Melbourne !! - never knew that lill fact. Legality
While boycotts are generally legal in developed countries, some restrictions may apply. For instance, it may be unlawful for a union to order the boycott of companies that supply items to the organization.
For United States citizens, the antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to all "U.S. persons," defined to include individuals and companies located in the United States and their foreign affiliates. These persons are subject to the law when their activities relate to the sale, purchase, or transfer of goods or services (including information) within the United States or between the United States and a foreign country. This covers exports and imports, financing, forwarding and shipping, and certain other transactions that may take place wholly offshore.
PS "the Indian boycott of British goods organized by Mohandas Gandhi" - i.e. note that some boycotts through history have had nothing to do with sport
Last edited by 2020hindsight; 24th-March-2008 at 08:06 PM.
Squeezing the peasants is still happening 2020.He was following the directions of the Earl anyway.
Well if a 2000 year old sequoia gets the chainsaw are we affected.When 100 elephants are massacred are we affected. With wild tiger numbers reduced to around 4 to 5000 are we affected.We accept some atrocities yet turn a blind eye to others.Every single man, woman and child are responsible.Our fellow (loosely) humans.don't we all happily support the same horror when we buy "Made in China"? or trade with them? sell them ore etc?
Walking a mile in another life form (someone elses shoes) Life and death is reality and why the human race was ever allowed to grow to such numbers i will never know in my lifetime.
p.s. I`ll be laughing at something soon as acceptance /acknowledgement is the diversion from depression.
p.s. MBF have an advert that they want people to live longer (join up and give us your money) when on a deeper level they (no one really) gives two hoots about anyone else.Looking deeper.... self is all that matters.
Last edited by Wysiwyg; 24th-March-2008 at 08:32 PM.
You think we should listen to your Chinese state run media ? the only media allowed in China ...It is quite sad that the majority of people in Western countries with their biased media are so ignorant about what is going on in China.
.. I can not believe anyone but a party member would say something like that... so maybe you guys at the Chinese embassy do use the internet..Ok, so the Tianaman Square incident happened about 20 years ago.
May want to ask Amnesty International for a 50 year list of terror ...What are the other ones on your list?
Just to help you, here is just the first few lines of the Anmesty report... remember that unlike other areas in the world there is no major conflict in China at the moment...
PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA
Head of state: Hu Jintao
Head of government: Wen Jiabao
Death penalty: retentionist
International Criminal Court: not ratified
An increased number of lawyers and journalists were harassed, detained, and jailed. Thousands of people who pursued their faith outside officially sanctioned churches were subjected to harassment and many to detention and imprisonment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death or executed. Migrants from rural areas were deprived of basic rights. Severe repression of Uighurs in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region continued, and freedom of expression and religion continued to be severely restricted in Tibet and among Tibetans elsewhere.
Nothing about media silence, read it again... it's referring to all the human rights fans defending the likes of Hicks and then say nothing when it comes to China.And what media silence are you talking about?
China is/may be killing people.. China has banned western media from Tibet...Tibet has been blown out of proportion in western news everyday for the past week.
Spoken like a true mainlander Chinese, so quick to leave your country for the western freedom and money, but so quick to stick your chest out about China. If a Chinese managers wife has a second child, then he may lose his position, one must toe the party line. I have never heard anybody say that China is a backwards nation though.I bet you also think that Chinese secret communist police kills unborn babies if a mother has already got one child. It is no wonder that the average Westerner see China as a backward nation.
Oh yeh and the left leaning western media doesn't blow up any little bit of bad information out of Iraq that they can...Every little thing that can make Asia look bad is blown out of proportion. The toy recall incident comes to mind, and that wasn't even the Chinese's fault, it was Fisher Price trying to cut their costs.
When you are fighting an enemy that kills their own women and children, makes videos of cutting westerners heads off with knives.. what we do is nothing. At lot less innocent people would have been killed if their government had not put military sites in suburbs, schools etc. Whats wrong with Australia's Pacific solution handling of these queue jumping economic refugees that just tie up our high court with endless appeals that cost the tax payer millions, unlike China who send them back over the border to prison and a high chance of death in North Korean labour camps. As for Africa, the Chinese are there to, and just ask the miners in the Congo about what conditions the Chinese mines give them to work ( low pay, nearly no food, poor camp living conditions ).What of USA use of torture and Australia's handling of refugees? How many innocent people were killed as a result of the US invasion of Iraq? Do we boycott the USA too? And what about the many more that die in Africa everyday due to western sponsored civil wars?
If China was not in Tibet, then there would not be this trouble.Dalai Lama only gets all the western media coverage because he is a hollywood celebrity in Asia spreading western influences. According to wikipedia:
So if you look outside American news outlets on coverage of what is happening right now in Tibet you will find the other side of the story. Can you see why it is in their interest to distort the events happening in Tibet?
Last edited by Superfly; 26th-March-2008 at 03:36 AM.
I agree that a boycott is kind of pointless.
But I do feel our athletes, and the athletes in general should make a stand. I for one, would not be surprised to see some kind of statement made at the opening or closing ceremony. I think this is a much better way of going about it. I think more affect would be garnered from this.
I mean, what are the Chinese going to do about it? Beat the offending athletes up?
It's got to the point where international condemnation is reaching a critical mass, and that the Tibetan situation can no longer be ignored. It may in fact overshadow the games themselves. And I'll be pretty glad if it ends up being like that.
Anyone planning on going to the protests on Saturday? I will if I wake up.
Up the Rats!!!!
So I take it then that those who think we should be boycotting China and the Olympic Games also have no shares in any Miners then? Just to be consistent
I have never ever seen sport as a means for political protest. Others are correct. If we want to boycott then we start with business. Australia will fall in a heap so then who are we really punishing?
Plus we do not have any moral authority as a country do we?
America has a problem if they were thinking about boycotting the Olympics. It was America who boycotted the 1980 Olympic Games, and why?, well, because Russia invaded Afghanistan in 1979.
Remember that Australia is in Iraq.
The picture of wars and battles is one that is fought all over the World.
In 2012 the Olympics will be in England, which has a record of wars and battles stretching back over 2,000 years. Remember they ruled both China and India.
Be realistic....boycott will not help Tibet in any sense, it's just a nightmare to all sportsmen, they have trained their ass off for ages for the 4 yearly event trying to showcase their strength and fight for a medal....
Sports should never be linked to politics....and politics is dirty, China is doing all the killing in Tibet last weeks, but what about the US and UK army in Iraq and Afghanistan? it's not suprising anymore when horrible news breaking out telling how the US army treat the people in these country, no human rights at all, those people are just like pigs waiting for being killed.
Just focus on the economy and our money in these hard time brought to us by the US....and we do need countries such as China and India to help us getting it through
I read a reasonable article saying that what the Tibetans are protesting about is the encroachment of the Chinese and their way of life on the Tibetan existence.
When Malaysia was formed there were severe anti-Chinese riots.The end result being Singapore breaking away from the federation.
Not reported much in the narrow Australian media is that when there is unrest and protests in Indonesia ,invariably they turn into an anti-Chinese crusade.
Burn their businesses etc!
Dare I say it ...that the Chinese are seen as the jews of Asia.
Perhaps the the Tibetans should do as John Howard says the aboriginals should do...assimilate with newcomers! Accept their fate!
The Chinese media will always report from the a pro China point of view and western media will always report from the pro Tibet point of view. This will not change therefore we will not have an objective point of view if we just get our news from Sydney Morning Herald or CNN.
If you have an attention span of more than 5 seconds, try SBS or BBC, they are at least a little more balanced.
I am not Chinese, I am just angry at the hypocrisy and one sidedness in US and Australian media when it comes to countries like China and Iran.
You might want to search USA as well, and other countries before singling out China.
You are just repeating the war propaganda they release in the mainstream media. From that I cannot see how the western media is left leaning at all.Oh yeh and the left leaning western media doesn't blow up any little bit of bad information out of Iraq that they can...
When you are fighting an enemy that kills their own women and children, makes videos of cutting westerners heads off with knives.. what we do is nothing. At lot less innocent people would have been killed if their government had not put military sites in suburbs, schools etc. Whats wrong with Australia's Pacific solution handling of these queue jumping economic refugees that just tie up our high court with endless appeals that cost the tax payer millions, unlike China who send them back over the border to prison and a high chance of death in North Korean labour camps. As for Africa, the Chinese are there to, and just ask the miners in the Congo about what conditions the Chinese mines give them to work ( low pay, nearly no food, poor camp living conditions ).
I am not defend chinese media, which you are right about the censorship. But it annoys me that people think western media is so democratic when it is far from it.
Sorry if this is a little bit of American angst:
Isn't that a little ignorant when the last decades have been marked by the US and other western countries sticking their heads where they dont belong, mostly in the name of capitalism? The middle east, east timor, latin america. And how many foreign countries' has China divided up and pillaged in the last decades?If China was not in Tibet, then there would not be this trouble.