Why is it so hard?

[ceasar73]

I will concede he's no idiot, but he is definately greedy, and this my friend
has led to his downfall.

ceasar73

[Chorlton]

Has anyone got any suggestions where my first base should be to try at least.

Cheers
SG

Hello SG,

I was in a similar situation when I first started. I played around with many different strategies and instruments. If I was initially profitable, I kept with a particular one but as soon as I received a string of losses, I dumped the idea, thinking that it wasn't robust and moved on... very frustrating!!!

What has personally helped me was my quest to develop mechanical systems. The learning process along the way, although very frustrating at times, has taught me what ideas can and cannot make money and as a result very quickly allows one to focus on the more robust and potentially long-term profitable ones. Also, by having some statistical evidence to back up a potential idea helps to trade it through the inevitable bad times...

There's a number of posters on here (Tech/A, Stevo, Nizar) to name just a few whom have also followed this path. I don't want to speak for them but IMO I believe their understanding of what really matters to turn a profit from the Mkts has probably been helped by this process.

All IMO,

Chorlton

[nioka]

I will concede he's no idiot, but he is definately greedy, and this my friend
has led to his downfall.

ceasar73

And I'll concede he is greedy as are most that use other peoples money to get there in a hurry. Using other peoples money puts you in a position to be managed by them. I learnt this from greedy banks. It is not only people that are greedy. My motto "neither a borrower nor a lender be."

[ceasar73]

And I'll concede he is greedy as are most that use other peoples money to get there in a hurry. Using other peoples money puts you in a position to be managed by them. I learnt this from greedy banks. It is not only people that are greedy. My motto "neither a borrower nor a lender be."

I AGREE 100% WITH THE ABOVE.

ceasar73

[wayneL]

Hello SG,

I was in a similar situation when I first started. I played around with many different strategies and instruments. If I was initially profitable, I kept with a particular one but as soon as I received a string of losses, I dumped the idea, thinking that it wasn't robust and moved on... very frustrating!!!

What has personally helped me was my quest to develop mechanical systems. The learning process along the way, although very frustrating at times, has taught me what ideas can and cannot make money and as a result very quickly allows one to focus on the more robust and potentially long-term profitable ones. Also, by having some statistical evidence to back up a potential idea helps to trade it through the inevitable bad times...

There's a number of posters on here (Tech/A, Stevo, Nizar) to name just a few whom have also followed this path. I don't want to speak for them but IMO I believe their understanding of what really matters to turn a profit from the Mkts has probably been helped by this process.

All IMO,

Chorlton

Mech trend systems certainly have some advantages, but they also have some downsides. eg Drawdown, (Not that other methods don't have it) but one must be psychologically prepared.

They may not suit what the particular trader wants to achieve.

That's the first decision before recommending a method. What is it the trader is trying to do, then design/implement a method to suit.

[tech/a]

Using other peoples money puts you in a position to be managed by them. I learnt this from greedy banks. It is not only people that are greedy. My motto "neither a borrower nor a lender be."

Not necessarily.

One of our clients is doing a developement in Henley Beach.People will see it if they are down that way.

Its a 12 million developement.
50 apartments.
They were sold off plan only last weekend.
46 are now sold.
Return $25 million on the 46 sold.
Banks are topping themselves to do the business.

To be one of the 5% you need to do things differently to the 95%

What has personally helped me was my quest to develop mechanical systems. The learning process along the way, although very frustrating at times, has taught me what ideas can and cannot make money and as a result very quickly allows one to focus on the more robust and potentially long-term profitable ones. Also, by having some statistical evidence to back up a potential idea helps to trade it through the inevitable bad times...

Important in the learning process.
To be one of the 5% you need to do things differently to the 95%

[Chorlton]

Mech trend systems certainly have some advantages, but they also have some downsides. eg Drawdown, (Not that other methods don't have it) but one must be psychologically prepared.

They may not suit what the particular trader wants to achieve.

That's the first decision before recommending a method. What is it the trader is trying to do, then design/implement a method to suit.

They don't all have to be Trend Following

[tech/a]

In conventional trading you need a trend to make a profit in one direction---that which your trading. Not talking options.

That trend can be 1 bar.

[IFocus]

Hi all

Over a period of time i have trying to gather as much info as i can to generate some income from the market.

At first it was buy some stocks they go up and sell etc well not much progress there as the market has gone done. On some occassions i did sell only to see the stock take off and miss nice profits. On the other hand i held on to stocks i should've in hindsight sold and of course they went down.

Then i looked at stocks with dividends well the dividends were not that great eg OXR and BPT so no joy there.

I started to look at options and just when i thought i had some progress with covered calls they appeared to be fairly low risk. Looked good for some monthly income but via this forum i was alerted to the risks. The volatility trap etc

Finally got to understand Calls and Puts etc but again lots of confusion and everyone telling me how risky it is if you get it wrong infinite losses etc

CFDs have been touted as very risky so have steered clear of these.

So as time goes by trying to absorb so much info i am getting more and more confused of which direction i should take to learn how to gain some income from the market.

Has anyone got any suggestions where my first base should be to try at least.

Cheers
SG

Good post SG

I can remember thinking the same when I started out and as a trader still do from time to time as trading can be a war of attrition as the account moves up then moves into draw down and then up and then into.....

The image of making a steady income is one often pushed by sprukers with some trading system or other usually during bull markets.

Its also an alluring aspect to the market but outside of a bull markets unlikely for at least 95% of retail traders to achieve IMHO.

I have seen that it is possible for those investors that have built a portfolio of div paying stocks to earn an income through most market phases the method I have seen takes time / patience and you do need certain market conditions to achieve effective entry like serious market crashes.

Have a guess at what you think is the method you want to engage the market with, Investing / trading / time frames / fundamentals / technical analysis do some serious work in the area chosen and at the same time find as Tech suggests a mentor.

Then become an expert at one thing before moving on to the next remembering that the trader / investor / hedge fund / what ever on the other side of your position will be likely to be an expert that wants your money.

My own experience was that I had a reasonable knowledge of markets / methods but went around in circles going backwards for up to 3 / 4 years before finding a mentor, since that moment I only ever went forwards.

From my mentor didn't get airy fairy feel good crap from a seasoned spurker I got knives though the front of my chest and a serious talking to about market reality.

If you are thinking of paying for a mentor post the name or even PM some of us here and ask if there is value

Just keep asking questions the answer is out there but I doubt it will end up being what you think it is now......

One last comment if you do take this on the best method of success is never give up, never that means never........

[julius]

Chortlon that's how I started, and it does help, but in hindsight I wish I'd spent it following the market in real time.

prawn86 unless I'm mistaken you've got a couple of years on me - I've found most people help if you're persistent enough.

wayneL posted this long ago,

The Four Stages Of Learning:
1/ Unconscious Incompetent
2/ Conscious Incompetent
3/ Conscious Competent
4/ Unconscious Competent

Worth a thought, it helped me alot.

I've said this before, but the best information is the hardest to 'find'...this ends up working in your favour once you find what you were looking for

[Junior]

I'm sorry i couldn't resist, and completey off topic..

thats what she said

Sorry I've been watching the US version of The Office...

Nice one! I've been watching that show non stop for the past 3 weeks.... big tuna!

[prawn_86]

prawn86 unless I'm mistaken you've got a couple of years on me - I've found most people help if you're persistent enough.

I think the hardest part is finding like minded people, or those with the same interest at our age.

I know most people in my degree dont really care about the markets, and finding 'older' people generally requires you to be in the industry.

Hence why this forum is so good. It allows like minded people to voice their ideas/opinions.

However finding a mentor has proven to be more difficult for me...

[tech/a]

I've said this before, but the best information is the hardest to 'find'...this ends up working in your favour once you find what you were looking for

I've said this before, but the best information is the hardest to RECOGNISE.

More to the point I think.
Most gloss over the MOST important aspects of trading.

If all those COMMON things discussed in countless threads had major impact in trading profits then 95% would be successful.

Things like

Its not the analysis which makes the profit.
Understanding RISK.
Its NOT about the entry.
Radges --prove disprove prove disprove.
Radges--its not the getting it wrong thats the problem its STAYING wrong.
Radges ---its not about being right.
Tech/a--To be one of the 5% you need to do things differently to the 95%


That are all glossed over as not important.

[nioka]

I've said this before, but the best information is the hardest to RECOGNISE.
Tech/a--To be one of the 5% you need to do things differently to the 95%
.

Hard to recognise. How true how very true.
I find there is nothing wrong with being in the top few % of the 95%. That is all I aim for, there is less need to take so much risk. you just do things a little differently to the top 5 and the bottom 90.

[MichaelD]

Radges--its not the getting it wrong thats the problem its STAYING wrong.

My new favourite market cliche - so true, especially in this market. It says much in few words.

[Trembling Hand]

Radges--its not the getting it wrong thats the problem its STAYING wrong.
Radges ---its not about being right.

That is probably why its so dam hard. Newbies want to be right. Experienced traders want opportunities to be proven wrong or right.

[IFocus]

Information?

Just counted the books behind me on my book shelve that I have read purely trading (60) must have had at least 10 from the local library, ring bound folders (15) stuff on my PC 1.5gig

(no wonder my wife gets cranky)

[tech/a]

Information?

Just counted the books behind me on my book shelve that I have read purely trading (60) must have had at least 10 from the local library, ring bound folders (15) stuff on my PC 1.5gig

(no wonder my wife gets cranky)

Just sent 25 to Trish Radge to sell on her second hand book stall!

I know what you mean--kept 30 more on the library shelf!

[julius]

tech, you are right that it takes a while to develop a 'critical eye' for information...at this point you are still unconscious incompetent "you dont know what you don't know"

[trtkjd1]

Some of the best information is the cheapest and the best and cheapest info you will get is right before your eyes on this forum with thousands of people giving their views, their highs and their lows. People with experience and some without. I personally think too many people get greedy and want results straight away. Just do you research be patient and don't get carried away.