I have a question in regards to ComSec. I have just activated my account, and was about to purchase x amounts of shares, but since it was after 5pm it only allowed me to buy "at limit" as I was outside the trading area to buy "at market".
What exactly is "at limit"... Do I enter in my maximum payment per share, and if it hits that amount the next trading day I buy the shares? What if i specify say $2.20 for the "at limit" and it closed @ $2.26, how does that work? What if it never drops to $2.20? How long does that bid last for etc.
Any more help on this would be great.
Once this in clarrified ill start reseaching some more companies and begin my first trade.
Thankyou
Phoenix
3rd-January-2007, 05:59 PM
Don't ever sell or buy at market. When i buy or sell with a given price my orders are executed straight away but when i do at market sometimes the order only goes through after like 2min. Worst thing is once ya place at market you can't amend. So if the stock is falling fast 2 min can be a big price difference (Comsec has these delays i don't know about other brokers).
This is my opinion others may disagree.
G-Zilla
3rd-January-2007, 06:04 PM
Hi Phoenix, that is interesting. So if you were selling out of a stock you would just throw your order in a fair enough gap below the "market price" so it would be taken out at market?
doctorj
3rd-January-2007, 06:16 PM
I use Commsec and most of my orders are market orders. I figure if I want to buy or sell, a tick or two slippage is better than delaying the trade or not getting a fill. More over, I avoid illiquid stocks so its not generally a problem.
I've never noticed a delay with Commsec at market fills. I place my order and its done straight away. You're right, once entered and confirmed they can't be altered, but only because they're executed immediately.
The only time I'd ever use a limit order is if I was trading a position that was a significant proportion of the daily volume and even then I'd strongly consider using several smaller at market orders over a day or more.
Phoenix
3rd-January-2007, 06:19 PM
I have had bad experiences with at-market orders in the past and since have avoided them at all costs and it has worked out better. Just keep an eye on market depth and set your price accordingly. :)
Jimmy001
3rd-January-2007, 06:19 PM
Hey Matty
I started trading yesterday and had the same problem... it seems crazy to me to have to guess what price you should buy though, because if u underguess or overguess you might end up losing as much as (either actual or opportunity cost) as going for market. I entered an order at 7pm for the AZX avertised bid price and it still hadn't gone thru at 11 next morn so i had to change to market to actually get the order executed.
By the way can anyone answer this hypothetical question on the T+3 trading... if the balance is only exchanged on day three, whats to stop someone buying a million dollars worth of shares (when they don't have a million dollars), taking a profit next day then selling at T+2 so on T+3 they get a credit profit without ever having actually had the money??? OBVIOUSLY I AM NOT THINKING OF DOING THIS as I am sane, but I was just curious if that is possible.
Jimmy
Phoenix
3rd-January-2007, 06:25 PM
7pm? the market is only open from 10:00am - 4:00pm ??????
mattyl2003
3rd-January-2007, 06:32 PM
He places a "at limit" order, they can be entered in any time, but only get executed during trading hours, right?????
Well thats what i think happens.. i may be wrong.
Anyone willing to help me understand market depth a little more. If i entered a "at limit" order after trading hours, will it update the market depth?
Cheers
beachcomber
3rd-January-2007, 07:03 PM
Hi mattyl
There is plenty of info on how the market works and its phases on the ASX website. Search for market phases and how opening/closing prices are determined and all should become clear.
Basically, the market is in pre-open from 7:00am to 10:00am after which stocks open in alphabetical order. All stocks are trading normally by about 10:10am.
During normal trading hours (10am-4pm) a limit order is the maximum price at which you want to buy or the minimum price at which you want to sell. At market orders can only be placed during normal trading hours as they are meaningless outside of these hours.
At 4pm normal trading stops and the narket goes into a closing price auction phase until 4:10pm. During the closing price auction anyone can place whatever bids/offers they like. As soon as there is an overlap in the bids and offers and Indicative auction price is determined (IAP). You need something like Comsec's Protrader software to se the IAP at any time. The standard web platform does not show IAP.
At 4:10pm stocks begin closing in alphabetical order. For any give stock at final closing around ~4:10pm, all orders with bids above the IAP and all orders with offers below the IAP are executed at the IAP at that time and the IAP then becomes the quoted closing price for the day.
If you place an order after after the stock has closed for the day or if your bid is below the IAP or your offer is above the IAP your order will stay in the market depth as per normal.
You can see the pre-open auction IAP (7-10am) on Protrader. The open and closing price auctions are essentially the same process at opposite ends of the day.
Anyway. more detail and info is on the ASX site if interested.
cheers :)
clowboy
3rd-January-2007, 07:21 PM
Hey Matty
I started trading yesterday and had the same problem... it seems crazy to me to have to guess what price you should buy though, because if u underguess or overguess you might end up losing as much as (either actual or opportunity cost) as going for market. I entered an order at 7pm for the AZX avertised bid price and it still hadn't gone thru at 11 next morn so i had to change to market to actually get the order executed.
By the way can anyone answer this hypothetical question on the T+3 trading... if the balance is only exchanged on day three, whats to stop someone buying a million dollars worth of shares (when they don't have a million dollars), taking a profit next day then selling at T+2 so on T+3 they get a credit profit without ever having actually had the money??? OBVIOUSLY I AM NOT THINKING OF DOING THIS as I am sane, but I was just curious if that is possible.
Jimmy
They only extend credit of $7500 for non top shares and $12500 for top shares, so no you can't trade a million $$$ parcel.
As for at market/ limit, they both have pros and cons, and I have been burned by both methods - but only by at limit from westpac, cuase they suck.
I prefer at limit.
Freeballinginawetsuit
3rd-January-2007, 09:01 PM
They only extend credit of $7500 for non top shares and $12500 for top shares, so no you can't trade a million $$$ parcel.
As for at market/ limit, they both have pros and cons, and I have been burned by both methods - but only by at limit from westpac, cuase they suck.
I prefer at limit.
Not quite correct Clowboy, credit is extended proportionate to your holdings. The larger youre holdings, the larger your credit. This may differ for CDIA linked accounts, I don't use a CDIA so I wouldn't have a clue!.
Comsec uses T3 on a sell on T1, you have two trading days to buy until the sell balances the buys and fund settlement is completed on the fourth day.
T2 applies to a buy on T1, a sell must be completed on T2 for fund settlement balance on the fourth day.
If you trade a lot (which I do), Comsec sometimes can string it out for a week and a bit before they balance the whole shabang of buy/sells. Depends on youre account with them I guess, I find them a decent bunch and have never had a drama over the past few years.
For youre larger investment buys, you get better rates from youre Broker, but for trading, Comsec are convenient and Protrader Platinum is a more than adequate trading platform.
I would usually enter a stock on open or on price action during the day and always 'at market', youre either going to buy or youre not?, the same goes for selling.
clowboy
3rd-January-2007, 09:10 PM
Correct in that it is proportionate to your holdings, but if you have none, then those are the figures (the later may be a bit more im not 100%)
If you have holdings im sure it is those figures + a % of your holdings (may be 100% of holdings not sure)
Out of interest do you know where they show your avaliable credit in your account?
Freeballinginawetsuit
3rd-January-2007, 09:13 PM
Top toolbar,ying yang logo :D
As for the credit you could theoretically lend, its a lot if you hold a lot, they are a bank!, after all.
And in regard to the T3 scenario, again they sometime defy logic and it must be dependant on how many trades you do over that/any given period. I havent been settled since the 22/12, and I had a days trading off the day before chrissy and after boxing day, so they should have settled on the 02/01 all previous transactions, but they havent. :D , you gotta hate banks
clowboy
3rd-January-2007, 09:58 PM
Top toolbar,ying yang logo :D
I assume that was in reply to me, still having trouble finding it.
I checked both position statement and share/ipo menu, then top, no ying yang logo
Freeballinginawetsuit
3rd-January-2007, 10:13 PM
I assume that was in reply to me, still having trouble finding it.
I checked both position statement and share/ipo menu, then top, no ying yang logo
Are you on Protrader?.
Julia
3rd-January-2007, 10:30 PM
I'd say the question of whether to buy or sell at limit or at market is influenced by your investing time frame.
Because I take a medium to long term view, if I want to buy something, I decide what I'm prepared to pay for it, and enter a limit order. Often it's well below the price on the day of entering the order. Sooner or later, the market will drop (e.g. today) and the order goes through at my chosen price.
Several of my stocks can vary by quite large amounts every day, and I don't see any point in paying more than I have to. I've often had orders sitting in Etrade for two weeks or more.
Julia
Freeballinginawetsuit
3rd-January-2007, 10:43 PM
Well Julia youre holdings in KZL are just about to turn the corner, they should turn green shortly for you :D
Julia
3rd-January-2007, 10:53 PM
Well Julia youre holdings in KZL are just about to turn the corner, they should turn green shortly for you :D
Hi Freeballing,
Sadly, I sold KZL prematurely. Referred to this error in the "Stupidest Post"
thread. Bought back into ZFX on a dip though, but again, should never have sold it when I did. Definitely my worst trade for 2006.
Julia
clowboy
4th-January-2007, 12:57 AM
Are you on Protrader?.
No, but if you get it free after x trades a month like most brokers it wont be long and I will.
Can you only view your credit balance on protrader?
Freeballinginawetsuit
4th-January-2007, 01:07 AM
No, but if you get it free after x trades a month like most brokers it wont be long and I will.
Can you only view your credit balance on protrader?
Yep :D,
I guess if youre using Comsec's basic website platform you could probably just place your trade and see if it goes into market, if it dosent they will probably inform you with a little message saying you have insufficient funds.
Again I dont use their web platform so wouldn't have a clue.
judge
4th-January-2007, 09:53 AM
I never use the "at market" option.
I very rarely put an order in the market until I see the price I am after. I don't see any benefit to me in signalling my intentions to other buyers or sellers when I don't have to.
When I see the price I want I simply place an "at limit" order at the top price in the appropriate side of the market depth. This is effectively an "at market" order but without the risks of any consequences should there be a delay for whatever reason in my order being processed.
transit
8th-January-2007, 10:53 PM
But when you put in an "at limit" order doesn't this show in the depth and signal your intentions to others?
I never use the "at market" option.
I very rarely put an order in the market until I see the price I am after. I don't see any benefit to me in signalling my intentions to other buyers or sellers when I don't have to.
When I see the price I want I simply place an "at limit" order at the top price in the appropriate side of the market depth. This is effectively an "at market" order but without the risks of any consequences should there be a delay for whatever reason in my order being processed.
GreatPig
8th-January-2007, 11:42 PM
Only if there is not enough stock available in the queue already to immediately fill the order. I think Judge's intention is that an order is only placed once sufficient stock is available at the desired price.
