At Rich's request, I'm starting a new thread rather than put general comments on either the Comsec or E-trade threads.
Greggy and Nizar,
my problems with E-trade seem to have been sorted out now and all is working well.
At the time I was most irritated I contacted Suncorp Online Trading via their website. The website appeared fairly standard but there was no reference to any research such as that offered by E-trade and which, imo, justifies their slightly higher cost. I received an automated email response. Then a further email stating someone would telephone me to discuss my requirements.
No phone call. Three days later another email asking me to fill out an application form.
Emailed them back saying not interested in filling out application forms when I don't know the details of what I am applying for, and that I withdraw my interest in their service.
So it seems many of them have one sort of problem or another.
I have to say that, up until the recent stuff ups due I suppose to E-trade taking in HSBC, I've been really happy with E-trade in every way.
Um, isn't it easy to be relaxed about it when the problems aren't actually happening!
Julia
Fab
15th-November-2006, 11:33 AM
I am with Commsec and I have to say I can not find a better broker with regards to online price that is why I am staying with them
GreatPig
15th-November-2006, 11:34 AM
I agree that general operation of Etrade is mostly okay now, but they still keep stuffing up my finances, and have started preventing my investment account from accessing the new website.
I was particularly annoyed that they recently froze my account for a few days because of their own problems, meaning I couldn't buy anything during that time, and right now, two days after cancelling a couple of buy orders, the funds are still not showing as available to trade.
Anyway, I'll be off to NAB any day now, so watch for the new "What the $&%@! is wrong with NAB this morning" thread starting shortly... :D
GP
babyboomer
15th-November-2006, 08:02 PM
I am with Comsec as well and am happy with the service.
clowboy
15th-November-2006, 09:04 PM
I have an application in the mail for comsec as I have had enuff of westpac. To top everything off, monday you could not trade cuase there site was down.
Funnily when I went into the commonwealth bank to enquire about a comsec account I was told they could not help me becuase they where not qualified and gave me a number to ring
babyboomer
15th-November-2006, 09:14 PM
I've had the same thing happen to me when I went to a CBA branch to enquire about my Comsec CDIA account. Reading between the lines of what CBA told me, Comsec is a separate division to the rest of CBA and the CDIA account is basically a Comsec product but the "bank" part of CBA provides just the logistics and infrastructure to maintain CDIA accounts on behalf of Comsec for their clients.
YELNATS
15th-November-2006, 09:37 PM
Hi, I use netwealth who I find to be reliable, prompt and fairly cheap ($23.50 for trades up to $10k, $31.99 for over $10k & up to $25k, plus up to $25,000 3 days credit for purchase of top stocks). I have used them for about 6 years and although they may not be the most sophisticated I have never felt the need to change. regards YN.
babyboomer
15th-November-2006, 09:49 PM
Comsec rates are..
$19.95 for orders up to $10000.00
$29.95 for orders $10001.00 - $25000.00
0.12% for orders $25001.00+
To qualify for these rates you need to be CHESS sponsored by Comsec and open a CDIA account for your settlement account, otherwise the rates are a little higher.
nizar
15th-November-2006, 10:22 PM
Can any1 recommend an online broker to trade overseas shares and their rates?
Out Too Soon
15th-November-2006, 10:46 PM
I'm stuck with Westpac at present. Once I'm out of debt tho it's bye bye to a bank that thinks earning money is all about charging fees, finding new ways to charge fees, & changing rules to charge some more fees. :banghead:
Netwealth has been offering $17.99 a trade but after they sent my appl back requesting a copy of my drivers licence after stalling me a dozen times (2 mths) already for more info, bank statements, ID, what I had for breakfast, ad infinitum, I realised they simply didn't want my business. They must be doing well, I've spent $1800 just in broking fees so far this yr. :banghead:
Commsec looks more expensive on the surface but maybe the benifits outway the extra costs, Westpac loses me money sometimes simply because it's sooooo slooooowwww! & unreliable. Westpac & Westpac Broking r run like seperate co.s, another excuse to charge fees passing money between bank & broking acc.s. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
There must be regular, exp, traders on this forum who know the best option, broker wise. Please let us frustrated beginners know. Please!
Julia
15th-November-2006, 10:59 PM
I have an application in the mail for comsec as I have had enuff of westpac. To top everything off, monday you could not trade cuase there site was down.
Funnily when I went into the commonwealth bank to enquire about a comsec account I was told they could not help me becuase they where not qualified and gave me a number to ring
Yes, I found the same thing when going into ANZ to make original enquiry about E-trade.
Julia
Fab
4th-December-2006, 11:02 AM
Which broker brokerage is the best for transaction between $30 000 and $200 000 . Commsec appears to be the best for low amount transactions but then I guess their idea would be to keep you as a customer and then when you get to build a portfolio charge you more for your higher amount transaction
Can any1 recommend an online broker to trade overseas shares and their rates?
Nizar,
Have a look at the Interacive Brokers site, all the information is on the site:
http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/main.php
A number of Australian Traders use them and they have an office in Sydney.
They also have a demo version of the TWS platform if you want to have a closer look.
Cheers.
Wheelz
29th-January-2007, 05:37 PM
Hi everyone, is St George online share trading good? if not, what are some of the better online brokers?
thidoan
3rd-February-2007, 11:54 PM
hi i am with westpac atm too.
i am kind of new to this game, but i think westpac is not too bad. i havent tried any others tho lol
what others do people recommend?
i dont think i will go with commsec, as when i tried to open a saving account with them, dramas occured. :banghead:
exberliner1
4th-February-2007, 12:27 AM
I an highly recomend Power etrade...the web iress platform....loads of extra features.....it also has a main gainers feature during the day which allowed me to find BLTO and 2.1c and to top up on GSEO both as they started their stellar rises recently...
Last year I had some major issues with etrade as the site kept crashing...but over the last few months it has been very good.
Power etrade costs $80 per month but trade more than 10 times a month or 30 times a quarter and the platform is free....
Check out the demo...
EB
exgeo
4th-February-2007, 12:33 AM
The first and only online broker I've used in Australia is Sanford securities. I've been with them for 7 years. In the UK I've used Etrade, Selftrade, Comdirect, TD Waterhouse and Natwest stockbrokers, so I have quite a bit of experience of other online brokers, just not in Australia.
Sanford are head and shoulders above any of the others I've used in terms of website functionality and also reliability - very important if your main source of income is trading. The UK version of Etrade are pretty rubbish the same as the Aussie version, as seems to be the consensus from what I've read on this site. The maximum I pay is 29.95 a trade for any amount (well, I've only traded up to about 50k so far), falling to 22.95 if I make more than a few trades a month which I usually do. National Bank's online trading platform is provided by Sanford under a "white label" agreement, therefore if you are using NAB, you are actually using sanford. I would heartily recommend them.
ezyTrader
4th-February-2007, 12:50 AM
Julia,
Sounds like you have experience in using both Commsec and eTrade. What's your preference and pros & cons? Or anyone else?
lakemac
13th-May-2007, 11:30 PM
Well there goes Sanford down the toilet.
They have just announced that their wonderful Sanford Pro trading platform (the same one that E-Trade and NAB use parts of) is to be no more.
They are replacing it with a crappy version of WebIRESS :banghead:
Contrary to what their rhetoric says about "enhanced functionality" the demise of the old Active-X based Sanford Pro platform and replacement with WebIRESS means less functionality; to wit:
No historical intra-day charting :confused:
No historical intra-day data (they used to provide up to 2 months worth of 5 min data) :mad:
Amateurish looking chart printouts vs a very smooth professional printout.
No abiltiy to select the date ranges on charts.
No ability to save individual colum layouts for different windows (eg. one layout for stock market depth and one for stock option window). :confused:
Really poor visual style and poor contrast display around charts (they are now using dark grey borders with black tick marks - say what :eek7:
The list goes on and on.
WHY WHY WHY go backwards. I really can't believe Sanford/IWL are so stupid.
So ok the old Sanford pro had problems with charts resizing incorrectly and they had to remove the online ordering system but PLEEEEEEESE why have they got rid of what was probably the best trading platform around.
Anyone else out there angry about this?
Am I the only one?
Sigh...
Prospector
14th-May-2007, 10:28 AM
So does this also impact on NAB too!
lakemac
14th-May-2007, 11:16 AM
no idea on the effects on etrade and nab.
will be watching their platform.
i would have almost switched to etrade but they have a nobbled version of Sanford Pro - charting is very limited relative to the full version that was available from Sanfords.
having tried the WebIRESS platform this morning - IT SUCKS imho :banghead:
think i will go and eat some worms :rolleyes:
flinders
14th-May-2007, 11:27 AM
have been with sanford few years now,but lately with the trouble with site late in the day when market still trading ,getting fed up with them. have started looking at FPM.they make lots noise about webiress and able to trade CFD's on same platform. would appreciate feed back.or is it a case that at some time they ALL stuff up?
lakemac
14th-May-2007, 11:39 AM
yes i noticed the problem with sanford hanging close to 4pm.
Sanford has really gone down hill since IWL took them over.
WebIRESS is really clunky relative to the old Sanford Pro.
Just compare the chart printouts:
Sanford Pro ----
This is from an email I just sent to Sanford re their new platform.
My gripe: you guys shutting down the old Sanford Pro
Besides not being happy about you shutting down the old Sanford Pro,
I am now having to put up with bugs in the clunky WebIRESS interface.
WebIRESS is not an upgrade - it is a serious downgrade.
We have lost:
1. historical intraday data (was back 2+ months)
2. historical intraday charting (what is the use of a 60 minute intraday chart without the previous data - for goodness sakes it is a joke).
3. obvious RED/GREEN fading of data changes. You can barely see the changes in WebIRESS
4. the ability to specify a date range in charts
5. the ability to have different headings in depth windows (ie. one set of headings for say a stock and a different set for an option). You can change it but WebIRESS does not remember the change.
6. the ability to actually read the legends along a chart. I mean dark grey border with black writing - what colour blind designer came up with that combination.
7. number of trades is missing
8. dynamic updates of intraday tabular data (ie. on the old pro you bring up a chart then select tabular data which would dynamically update).
9. any decent chart printout. The old pro printouts were exceptional. Clean, easy to read and well formatted. The WebIRESS ones look like a first year computer science student's attempt at writing a graphics program. Have they never heard of thin lines.
10. the ability to resize and/or rename columns. Now its fixed width. Don't like it - well tough - according to the publicity this is an enhancement - bulldust I say.
11. multiple linking of charts to market depth etc. Now all we get is Broadcast that forces everybody to think we should change to this stock. Too bad if you want some windows to have a different stock or option code in them.
12. a decent window manager that you could partition. Now it is a divide by whatever and if you don't like it too bad.
13. full cross hairs on charts (ok old pro could only manage a vertical one) but now we don't even get that - you can't line up price information with an indicator.
14. clean charts without little annoying popups that tell you what the price was. Trouble is you can't see the price data to draw lines or anything because the popup is in the way. You can't even turn them off.
15. multiple workspaces. Now all we get is one.
16. 15 minute interval selection - nope that's gone too. Not much use since historical intraday data is missing anyway.
17. chart scroll back without having what you are trying to look at ripped away in front of your eyes and replaced with what just happened. Don't even try to draw a line study - the software will not give you enough time before it decides you really want to see what it just drew on the screen. No moron I will make that choice not you.
18. being able to select at the money options.
19. any way of scrolling to the right when trying to change the headers in a market depth window. There is no scroll bar - you have to make the window really wide to be able to see the other fields in the header. Say what!?
So from your website you quote:
"We are changing the Sanford Pro application to deliver you a more feature and information rich dynamic platform."
Given the above list how do you justify "more feature and information rich dynamic platform". Horse manure.
You then state:
"Additional new features include but are not limited to: Market Maps, Trade Analysis, ETO & Warrant Calculators, more layout options, platform independence, CFD and international market integration, portfolio monitoring and others."
More layout options! You have to be kidding.
Basically the new platform sucks. Big time.
You have lost a loyal customer.
julles
14th-May-2007, 03:14 PM
Good on you, I think the New Sanford platform is horrid!!! I'll be closing my account with them also as I simply can't read the thing.
I had an account open with Etrade years ago and I just subscribed to Etrade Pro and it's very similar to Sanfords Pro account. A little dearer in price however they offer it for free if you do 10 trades or more (in a month/quarter)
I really don't like the Web Iress platform and a lot of dynamic data providers are using it now.
Can anyone advise as to whether Comsec's trading platform is web iris? Thanks
lakemac
14th-May-2007, 03:29 PM
E-trade bought a nobbled copy of the Sanford Pro software. Some of its better features in charting were disabled.
Funny thing was I spoke to Etrade at a trade expo and noticed they had the software running, so I promptly showed them the bugs that they had bought too :D
Even so I am glad I am not the only one who thinks the new WebIRESS platform is clunky in comparison to the old Sanford Pro one.
At the moment I am having to find a company that can do historical intraday data backdated at least one month that can be uploaded to excel or metastock.
So far only Quotecentre (Reuters) seems to do that.
Bourse Data has some of what I want - will be doing a free trial of Bourse datafeeds. Still need to find a broker.
Morrison Securites www.morrisonsecurities.com.au is looking good (they still use WebIRESS but their fees are cheaper than other brokers).
Happy
15th-May-2007, 11:07 AM
Just one word of warning re. Morrison Securities
They charge PER ORDER PER DAY; if your order is spread over several days, every day will incur a fee, so not so good for penny stocks or low volume stocks.
lakemac
15th-May-2007, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the heads up on that.
I noticed that little note on their website but did not really take much notice of it.
It is a bit confusing until you pointed out purchasing low volume stocks.
So to explain it a bit clearer what they mean is you pay the brokerage fee each day whilst the order is in the order queue and until the order is filled.
So if you placed an order somewhat down from the current trading price of a stock (even a liquid one) hoping it would be filled at a lower price some day in the future you are being charged for having the order just sit in the order queue.
Indeed.
Since I primarily trade options (order good for day only) that is not so much of an issue.
Thanks again for pointing it out.
doctorj
15th-May-2007, 11:01 PM
http://www.traderdealer.com.au is worth a look too. It's quite similar to the AOT of old.
lakemac
22nd-May-2007, 08:37 PM
Well I am still at it - trying to find a replacement for my beloved old Sanford Pro :)
So far I have tested:
Bourse Data - not bad. Has links to Trader Dealer (at a reduced access rate to their order processing system - brokerage remains at their standard rate of $44 per trade up to 100 contracts (I wish...)) or Commsec for trading.
Also has long term tick level historical data but you have to request it for each day you want for each stock, so for 30 top ASX stocks for a month that is 600 downloads... Lucky I only need one or two. Currently my front runner as a replacement. Down side is interface is not as intuitive or as configurable as the old Sanford Pro. Historical intraday charting is good.
Market Analyst - interface is good but same remarks about it as for Bourse Data, the old Sanford Pro still out does both of them. Charting is a bit clunky and not as slick as other packages. Studies such as MA are not properly anti-aliased so they appear rather jagged and thick even on the thinest setting. The big killer for this package is no DDE interface. Scratch this one.
Iguana's Vamp - really simple, does not handle streaming data. However, they are releasing a wizz-bang (technical term; used in all the books ) package called Spark in a couple of months. According to the developers it is a totally new approach to trading systems. Will let you know about this one later after a sneak peek ;) .
Phoenix AI - wow! Charting as it is meant to be done. These guys know how to write code for displaying and handling charts. I am impressed. Apparently they were responsible for some of the original Bourse Data code. I would rate their charts as second to none and that is saying something. Found their options map a bit clunky :( . Again not as configurable as Sanford Pro's grids. You can't rename columns (but you can resize them), you can't sort options by just one month and then by strike - you can select columns but beyond that you have to use their map layout (I like to have puts and calls sorted together by strike. Others may have different preferences which you could arrange under Sanford's approach but not with the Phoenix package). Their DDE interface like the Bourse one is good. Works well with both Excel and DDEChartUpdater but and it is a big BUT you can't easily export data history. I have spoken to their support team and they are getting back to me about this. I can't believe this limitation. Surely people go on holidays and not trade for a couple of weeks and want to backfill their intraday data... Maybe not. Ok their charts like Bourse Data will do the intraday backfill automagically when you reconnect but I want to export the data in a form I can manipulate and keep independently of their package. I am paying enough money to obtain the intraday data in the first place. I will keep you posted on the outcome of this one. If they can solve this it is a great front runner. It does not have a link to a broker like Bourse Data does so you will still need to find an inexpensive way to place your orders online.
About to test eSignal and Weblink/BullCharts.
More results to come...
lakemac
23rd-May-2007, 03:49 PM
eSignal - massive package 22MB. Takes a lot to configure it because it is so configurable... :confused: . Very very clever charting. If you have three charts linked together but using different intraday timeframes the cross-hair cursor will track in sync in each chart when you move into the time range displayed the other chart (even more confused? I did say it has a lot of options and neat features). Overall a very impressive package except...
1. it is expensive; the monthly fees are upwards of $200 - $300 and you have an exchange rate risk because they bill you in $US. Ouch!
2. you have to put up with American style date format (mm/dd/yy). It can't be changed. What a headache.
3. no market depth or options for the ASX :eek7: . According to the sales rep "due to issues negotiating royalties with the ASX, these features are not currently available". Down side of using an American data provider.
Such a great platform, but without options and market depth you might as well send it to /dev/null. Scratch eSignal.
Did some more configuring of Phoenix AI's package.
Discovered how to get the options list in a watchlist. Much cleaner than their options market map thingy (well at least imho). Some may find the options market map display useful. Also it would appear that they have listened to their (potential) customers and a new release with the ability to export a full days course of trades for a particular stock is on its way in a couple of weeks. Can't wait to see how that works.
More to come.
julles
23rd-May-2007, 04:42 PM
Thanks Lackmac for the detailed review. I've just been checking out the Phoenix A1 site and it does look very good. Before I sign up however can you assure me that it is dynamic data like Sanford pro?
I've been giving etade pro a whirl and it locks up at least 4 times a day, it seems to be when I click something quickly their software just doesn't like it! :eek: So not impressed and will cancel them also.
Thanks for bringing phoenix to my attention. Live dynamic? Julles
lakemac
23rd-May-2007, 04:56 PM
Hi Julles,
Yes Phoenix AI is definitely live and dynamic.
And certainly the closest thing I have found to the old Sanford Pro.
So far it is my front runner as long as they can make the change so intraday tick data (or even 5min data) can be exported from their platform. The guys I have spoken to in support are really great and very helpful.
They do have a one month money back guarantee if you are not sure.
You initially pay for 3 months (and get one month free so it is really only two months). If you don't like the service, let them know before your 30day grace period and they claim they will refund your money.
It is a bit confusing at first setting up and understanding how their layouts, watch lists and market depth panels all hang together (Sanford Pro was much more intuitive imho), but all in all it certainly works well.
Stop_the_clock
23rd-May-2007, 04:59 PM
Almost lost my temper today with Nab Online trading.
Rang the dopey call centre, on hold for what seemed like a lifetime.
Having problems on a daily basis with the system crashing at around 3:30EST and crashing on and off throughout the day.
Techs said...yeah we know of the problem, and its been going on for 6 months, and it will be fixed in about 3 months.
Was told the Whole system needs to be upgraded and it crashes at busy periods.
FARRRRRRRRRRRRRK I cannot believe how much they couldn't give a toss about the problem and treated my like a piece of cr_ap today. How many dough brains does it take to upgrade a server?
I told them on a daily basis that NAB was getting a bad wrap on many stock discusssion forums and many members had simply left the Nab and gone elsewhere. Massive loss in profits!
How much is Nab's reputation worth?
Surely the system needs urgent attention. TODAY, NOT IN 3 MONTHS.
WHAT A FILTHY COMPANY IS NAB, IT COULDN'T GIVE A TOSS!:banghead:
lakemac
23rd-May-2007, 05:02 PM
one thing to remember though - Phoenix AI is only a data/charting platform - they are not brokers. You will still need to find a low cost broker to handle order execution.
This is one area the Bourse Data system has an advantage - they have a back office link to either commsec or trader dealer (with them offering a reduced $11/m access fee for just order execution).
lakemac
23rd-May-2007, 05:09 PM
Almost lost my temper today with Nab Online trading.
Rang the dopey call centre, on hold for what seemed like a lifetime.
Having problems on a daily basis with the system crashing at around 3:30EST and crashing on and off throughout the day.
Techs said...yeah we know of the problem, and its been going on for 6 months, and it will be fixed in about 3 months.
Was told the Whole system needs to be upgraded and it crashes at busy periods.
FARRRRRRRRRRRRRK I cannot believe how much they couldn't give a toss about the problem and treated my like a piece of cr_ap today. How many dough brains does it take to upgrade a server?
I told them on a daily basis that NAB was getting a bad wrap on many stock discusssion forums and many members had simply left the Nab and gone elsewhere. Massive loss in profits!
How much is Nab's reputation worth?
Surely the system needs urgent attention. TODAY, NOT IN 3 MONTHS.
WHAT A FILTHY COMPANY IS NAB, IT COULDN'T GIVE A TOSS!:banghead:I feel your pain Stop_the_clock :(
NAB uses the Sanford/IWL platform and yes they have had lock issues around the 3.30pm time since that major correction a few months ago. Like NAB the Sanford support people just have given up.
Similar things appear to be affecting E-Trade too as they also rely on the IWL platform. Something is rotting in IWL/Sanford from the sound of things. :2twocents
Stop_the_clock
23rd-May-2007, 06:13 PM
I think more and more people are trading on-line from the comfort of their own homes, offices, uni's, internet caffe's etc
Its about time the blo_oody banks caught up with what is already public knowledge that Australian's love to gamble/trade on the stock market.
ALL BANKS MUST URGENTLY UPGRADE ALL SERVERS FOR THIS MASSIVE INFLUX OF TRADING ACTIVITY.
Not to mention this amazing bullish run we are having on the stock market and the squillions of dollars from cashed up baby boomers and super funds entering the market.
Banks are still in the 80's using comodore 64 block graphic computers, its a bloo_dy discrace!
Insert disc, 8,1 computer geeks:banghead:
julles
24th-May-2007, 09:06 AM
It's all good, I've not traded with Sanford for about 3 years even though I could of had cheaper brokerage with them. I found them slow in excution of trades (sell or buy) I've stayed a client simply for their platform and have payed the monthly fee.
Paying for the Tools of the Trade does not bother me.
I am going to enjoy telling Sanford that I'm going to pay 80% more for a platform just because it works! lol
I've already told them what I think of the new iris platform and I recieved a gracious letter outling how they think I'm wrong. Most clients (apparently) are happy and want to see Sanford move forward with the times.
I want to point out that it's actually the first response I've ever recieved from them via enquiries through email.
Good luck to them I say! I'll be signed up and using the Pheonix platform by next week.
Have a good day all.. Julles
vicb
24th-May-2007, 09:26 AM
I use etrade.
The problems seem to of eased a bit with their site.
Bonus with them is that once or twice a week and extra 40k or so appears in my account.
Now thats service!
Apart from that and the occassional 20c stock appearing on screen at $6.00,
all is good.
Now thats performence!
Out Too Soon
25th-May-2007, 08:55 PM
I use etrade.
The problems seem to of eased a bit with their site.
Bonus with them is that once or twice a week and extra 40k or so appears in my account.
Now thats service!
Apart from that and the occassional 20c stock appearing on screen at $6.00,
all is good.
Now thats performence!
You've sold me vicb!!:eek: I'll open an acc tomorrow- but with my luck they'll prob take the 40k OUT of my acc to make up the shortfall:banghead:
Out Too Soon
29th-May-2007, 10:02 PM
Does anyone use E-Trade via Bendigo Bank? That's the way I was thinking of going.
lakemac
30th-May-2007, 07:56 AM
Well like julles I have signed up with Phoenix.
What swayed me was their responsiveness to requests.
You may recall one of the show stoppers for me using them was that they could not download a full day's worth of tick data so I could load it into Metastock, well... a week later that functionality is added after a couple of emails to them.
NOW THAT'S SERVICE. Goodbye Sanford. You lost a good customer.
The washup in all my testing:
I should prefix this with my trading style as a lot of features I was after reflect the fact I trade options with a timeframe of anything from intraday to a couple of weeks. Real-time dynamic and short time frame data (5 min) are the norm for me. Longer term (EOD) traders may wonder what all the fuss is about :rolleyes: I also only trade stocks/options on the ASX.
Bourse Data - 2nd prize. Good system.
Good bits:
1. Integration with the brokers. Nearly nearly swayed me.
2. Really good back (tick) data stretches for miles...
3. The concept of saving chart styles (similar to Metastock templates). Very easy to modify a chart by a simple drop down menu.
4. It remembers individual stock/option codes between platform restarts for each market depth window you have open.
Bad bits:
1. It only remembers the last colour/font change for a given class (ie. type) of window. Thus if you have three market depth windows open and give them three different colours (say blue for underlying stock, green for calls, red for puts) it only remembers the last colour (say red) between restarts of the platform. Similarly with fonts. Doh!
2. Chart printouts need work. They are ok but compared to Sanford or Phoenix they lack a certain finesse.
3. When you copy/paste the chart you get this ugly set of menus at the top of the image. Not a good look. No style.
4. Overall platform is not that intuitive. Sanford Pro had that down pat.
5. No "feel" for the market. The platform does not support fades or even colour changes when a price/volume changes. A watchlist just sort of sits there. It is dynamic but you have to stare at it to see prices moving. Again Sanford Pro had the fade feature. It gives you a good "feel" for the market.
6. No way to download a full month's worth of intraday data. You can only get a day at a time.
7. Forgets the From/To month setting with the options watch screen between platform restarts.
8. Only one linkage available between charts, market depths. Sanford and eSignal support multiple links. You also want to be able to NOT have some of your market depths linked (particularly if you trade options).
It is worth noting that the guys who wrote Bourse Data are the guys behind Phoenix AI. You can see the improvements in charting between the two packages. So lets do them next.
Phoenix AI - 1st Prize (for now - more on that later).
Good bits:
1. Charting - exceptional. You can see the improvement over Bourse Data.
2. Chart printouts - only package that worked without any tweaks, hassles or other issues. Impressive.
3. Fixed their tick data download issue (you could originally only download a small part (what was visible on the screen). The fact that they even bothered to reply gave them a plus. Double Plus Good (thanks George Orwell) that they did something about it. Way to go.
4. Support for red/green colour changes as a function of market price/volume changes. Gives you a feel for the market. No fading so not quite as good as Sanford Pro but better than Bourse Data.
Bad bits:
1. Forgets the stock/option codes and colours (but remembers the fonts) for individual watch screens between platform restarts. Backward step relative to Bourse Data. I don't know about you but I like to pick up the next day where I left off. Maybe I am strange in this respect.
2. What appears to be a back to front way of saving layouts for individual watch lists and market depths. Just a minor user interaction issue maybe...
3. Similar comments about only having a single link/sync between charts.
4. Colour changes to black/white in market depth windows on price/volume changes. Better to have red/green imho. No fading here either.
5. No simple way to get a month's worth of data in one hit. Same problem as Bourse Data.
eSignal - 3rd Prize
Good bits:
1. Charts that linked their cursors together. If you have the same stock displayed in multiple charts on different timeframes the cross hairs cursor will track across all the charts - very clever.
2. Data from a very wide range of exchanges around the world.
3. Comprehensive - every single thing you could ever want.
4. Market replay - you can replay the market (with acceleration) back to 10 days ago. Great for training.
Bad bits:
1. Expensive - by the time you add the ability to trade options you are looking at upwards of $A250 per month. Also you get billed in $US which is a risk I just don't need.
2. They are having trouble supplying market depth and options from the ASX. This is stupid. Again a risk I just don't need.
The others:
Bull Charts
Good:
1. very similar in look and feel to Metastock. Felt right at home.
2. has a training mode but no market replay.
Bad:
1. Their dynamic bits were not all that exciting. No feel for the market.
2. Expensive relative to other packages both in ongoing fees and upfront purchase.
Market Analyst 4 - not bad.
Good:
1. The charting is good.
Bad:
1. No DDE interface. This is a show stopper for me as I link my Metastock charts to the live feeds via DDEChartUpdater www.trading-tools.com
(excellent package by the way for Metastock Pro users). Most other packages I tested had DDE interfaces.
Reuters Quotecentre - full on
This would have been my fall back position had Phoenix not come to the party.
Good:
1. Full integration with Metastock Pro.
2. Extensive coverage of multiple exchanges.
Bad:
1. Expensive and billed in $US. About $A200/m @ 80c in the $US
2. Lack of any response from support. US company and you are a small fish.
WebIRESS - wooden spoon
Good:
1.
Bad:
1. Clunky interface.
2. Intraday charts are a joke. They only start at 10am. No historical intraday charting.
3. Chart printouts are as I have said before are woeful.
4. No adjustable anything. :banghead:
My next post - the next generation...
lakemac
30th-May-2007, 08:36 AM
I mentioned in my previous post that Phoenix AI had first prize for now.
Well I was lucky enough to have a preview of what could be the next generation in trading platforms. I can't say too much because the product is still under wraps and due for release in about 1-2 months.
What I can say is WOW!
To say it's interface is slick is an understatement.
On first glance it is like sitting in a Ferrari or Lamborgini.
You just know this thing is fast and it is.
The approach the developers have taken in being able to visualise the market is phenomenal. Fades taken to the next step. Market replay as you have never seen it before.
The best way to describe the interface's look is to compare it to a cross between the computer game SplinterCell and a stained glass window with fully adjustable and automagically resizing glass panes (if that makes sense with my attempt at photo montage below)
I am in no way doing their interface justice.
You have to see and feel it for yourself.
There first release is missing a few things particularly in the options area and DDE interface but that is coming from what the developers have said.
There could also be some really exciting "what if" features too.
Watch this space as they say...
julles
30th-May-2007, 08:55 AM
Phoenix AI wasn't what I was looking for so after one day I cancelled my subscription. The crew there were very prompt and as Lakemac suggests if it's support your after Phoenix A1 is it.
Currently trialing Paritech Pulse, first day today. So far it looks to be the closest to Sanford, has everything including the ability to change font, live news feed, great charting, I'll be using it today to see if it offers a feel for the market.
Will let you know how I go.
This Next generation software you've mentioned Lakemac, well that's just teasing. Maybe I'll hold off on signing up for pulse till you disclose who what and where!
lakemac
30th-May-2007, 08:59 AM
Sorry about the teasing julles, but until I can get a screen shot from them and a beta test copy it will have to remain a tease.
What exactly are you looking for julles?
I am intrigued as to what you didn't find in Phoenix.
I did test Pulse a while ago maybe I should go back and have another look.
I would be interested in your thoughts.
julles
30th-May-2007, 09:09 AM
Ok, I didn't like the news ticker at the bottom, I didn't really like doing 3 clicks of the mouse to add a stock to the watch list. I just knew after a days use that I wouldn't be at my peak if I was continue to use that software. It's really personal preference and eye sight comes into it in my case. The platform has got to be easy to see :bloated:
new_trader1984
2nd-June-2007, 07:15 PM
Hello lakemac,
ive been looking at the phoenix ai software a while now but my trading account isnt that big for it to be much good to me, but plan on going to the seminar and 2 day gryphon learning course and get the phoenix ai software end of july august.
Do you think the new platform will be ready by end of July?
I havent used charts much and hopefully the 2 day course will give me a good understanding of how to use the charting software with phoenix ai.
Is the software very easy to use?
Thanks.
Any advice would be appreciated.
lakemac
3rd-June-2007, 12:31 PM
Hi new_trader1984,
I gather from your nick that you are new to trading.
You don't mention what sort of investment/trading time frame you are interested in. Typically one would identify someone as an investor if their time frame between typical buy/sell operations is greater than 12 months. Buy-and-hold investors are in this group along with most "fundamental" ie. non-chart investors.
The other group are often called traders - they have shorter (< 12 months) time frames and include both chartists (sometimes called technical analysis) and fundamentalists (no not terrorists) who base their decisions on company reports etc. There are several trader subgroups. The main ones are intraday (sometimes called day traders), short-term (typically trading derivatives or futures). I fall into the short-term category as my trading time frame is between one and 30 days.
Depending upon how you categorise yourself that will determine the kind of information you require. Phoenix AI and similar products are aimed more at traders than investors. Also depending upon your time frame the "service level" (daily or intraday data) required will determine how much it is going to cost you per month.
This next bit is going to be a bit heavy but bear with me, it might save you time and more importantly money.
One thing a lot of people don't understand is how to select the underlying frequency of their data feed. By that I mean the number of "samples" of price/volume information you need capture in order to obtain an accurate representation of the stock (or future's) change in price relative to the time frame you trade in. The reason for this is based in signal theory in particular what is called the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist-Shannon_sampling_theorem). Basically you need a data feed which will give you AT LEAST two price/volume samples per time period that you trade in. I say at least because you really need many more price/volume samples than just two per time period.
Confused? Look at it this way, if you look at just end of day (EOD) prices, how many of these do you need to work out what the trend is? One is not enough, two well you have a start, 3 months worth and you are getting the picture. So if you intend to trade say stocks with only an EOD data feed you could realistically assume your shortest holding time between buy and sell would be in the vicinity of 3-6 weeks. Each week represents 5 samples of price/volume data times 3 weeks gives you 15 samples from which you would be able to get a good idea of the trend.
Let me illustrate this effect with some charts with 5, 15 and 50 samples on them. You tell me which one you could trade...
Most people would have trouble trading even the 50 sample one.
If you find you are drawn to shorter time frame trading (< 1 month ie. just 20 samples of EOD data) then I suggest you get a data feed that is more frequent than end of day - ie an intraday one).
Good service providers will have a range of plans ranging from end of day down to tick (ie. individual trades) level. You pay for what you get but on the other hand don't pay for what you don't need.
For my own trading style in options (time frame: 1 - 30 days) I capture 5 minute data. This gives me 3 data samples for every 15 minute bar and 12 data samples for every 60 minute bar. That gives me 6 samples per day which over 30 days gives me 180 price data points.
So first work out what time frame you want to trade then select the appropriate data feed frequency.
The selection of trading platforms is a matter of personal choice once you have determined if their platform can provide you with the right data feed.
One caveat on the WebIRESS platform - they say they have intraday charts but the caveat is those charts only display the data for that day. So if you need to use 1 hour charts for your trading you are only going to see 6 bars by the close of the market. If you can trade with only 6 bars (see my first chart) good luck to you.
Further refs:
Nyquist frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_frequency) and Nyquist rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_rate)
Bio on Claude Shannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Shannon)
lakemac
3rd-June-2007, 12:53 PM
This is becoming a bit off topic (we were talking about online brokers not trading plaftorms - sorry people).
Those following this thread would have already gained some feel for the different platforms. A recap might be worthwhile:
IWL/Sanford Pro (the old version) - only knobbled versions available through NAB and E*Trade. These platforms were integrated with their respective brokers.
Bourse Data - trading platform with a backend link to either Commsec or Trader Dealer. Good historical intraday charts.
Phoenix AI - trading platform only - no backend link to a broker. Of course you are free to pick any broker with them and you only need their order execution part of their website. You use Phoenix for the dynamic stuff and place your order with whomever.
Market Analyst 4 - trading platform only.
eSignal - same but expensive.
Bull Charts - trading platform only. Approx $800 up front fee.
Metastock - charts only. No market depth interface. Can be coupled with realtime feeds. Expensive (> $1000) for the realtime version (Pro 10) but the advantage is you get to keep your data for long term storage in a form that can be imported exported easily. I use Metastock for both trading signals (in conjunction with a trading platform) and researching new trading ideas.
Incredible Charts (http://www.incrediblecharts.com.au) - freebie for end of day data. This is the one I recommend for newbies.
As an aside to all of this, most people never really question what sort of trader/investor they are. Are they trading the right instrument ie. stock, index, future, option, let alone the right stock, commodity or currency that suits their trading style. And then add the element of time frame for their makeup and you understand why a lot of people are unable to feel comfortable with their investing/trading. Should you even be a trader? All good questions few people ask.
As to doing courses - you will find books are a better starting point. That and finding a mentor. Someone who has been there before you. I did that about 2 years ago and it changed my trading dramatically.
Another thing, whilst trading appears easy, it is not. Most people underestimate the amount of time and training (psychological as well as technical) that it takes to make money in this game.
lakemac
3rd-June-2007, 01:01 PM
I forgot to address your question of ease of use.
With the exception of the old Sanford Pro and maybe Bull Charts, none of the packages I evaluated were easy or intuitive to use.
I suspect even Bull Charts appeared to be easy to use as it is very similar to Metastock's interface. So I can't really tell on that front.
This new product under wraps at the moment is going to be interesting to try out for its ease of use. The quick demo I had was too short to really see if I could set it up and use it easily.
Although I have settled for Phoenix AI for now, I am still looking for a better more intuitive interface. Again it is personal preference. Most companies provide some sort of free or money back trials. I suggest you give each of them a spin.
However, no trading platform is going to make you a profitable trader. That comes from within. One other thing I have learnt - there is no subsitute for live ie. real money on the line trading. Paper trading is good to get started with but it is only when real money is involved will you really understand the skills required for trading.
new_trader1984
3rd-June-2007, 03:21 PM
Hi lakemac,
Thanks for your replies,
Ive been investing in shares about 3 years now mostly long term with a small amount which ive been increasing. From July August i will have a decent sized amount to trade and invest with, i plan on investing into a couple of companies that ive watched and researched about for longer period for atleast 12 months. With the rest of the money i want to start trading using charts, ive read a bit about charts and got the infochoice charting software which updates with delayed 20 minute time frames. I am aiming for trading that will last between 1 and 30 days and was looking at the phoenix ai software for live data instead of pressing the refresh button on my broker website to see changes in price. The webpage that shows all the features of phoenix ai looks like lots of it could be very helpful and some parts i wouldnt use since at the moment only trading investing in asx stocks, havent looked at shorting or options.
Ive spoken to the people that run phoenix ai and they said that the charts update on the screen after each trade goes through so wont have to refresh the page to see the new changes, also the announcements once recived will come up on the screen too which would be good. The scanner software i was told is free for first 12 months thats the inquisitor which can help find stocks that might be good for trades after you put in the filters which can help narrow the selection choices. Currently every weekend i go through all the different stocks mostly mining and then look at announcements and look at future plans for the company to make my investments which is very time consuming, and hopefully this scanning software may help with atleast giving a smaller selection of stocks to look at.
I have also been looking at trader dealer for an online brokerage company for short term trades, they are very cheap for large trades compared to other online companies that are only cheap for upto $10,000 once over works out to be a lot more than 33 dollars.
Can people have 2 online trading accounts?
The 2 day course that i am looking at doing is meant to give you a good idea of the charting and how to use the phoenix ai software, Thought it might be worth it since can learn more from being shown how to do things then reading books, but i have been reading charting books but only have a basic understanding of charting at the moment. They are meant to show you the early warning system that they have which might help with entry and exit points also how to use the smart money indicator that you get using phoenix ai.
Have you used the neilsen supply demand indicator and smart money indicator? Do you find them helpful?
Any advice you could offer when using the phoenix ai software?
If you buy the software can you install it on more than one computer and have the live data feed appearing on the screen on both computers or is the software limited to one computer?
Sorry that might sound like a silly question but thought to ask.
Thanks.
lakemac
3rd-June-2007, 04:04 PM
Hi again new_trader1984,
Sounds like the Phoenix AI platform would be worthwhile for you.
Trader Dealer was one of the brokers I was looking at using myself.
You may also want to look at Morrison Securities but be aware that they charge you for each day that a trade sits in their order queue.
Given your preference for formal training over reading books then courses are probably a better idea.
You can have as many trading (ie broker) accounts as you like.
I currently have two - Sanford, Commsec.
Each broker will issue you with a different HIN (Holder Identification Number) which identifies only those holdings you have with that broker. The HIN is part of the ASX CHESS system. Each broker effectively is a CHESS "sponsor" who holds your stocks etc in trust for you. You can transfer stocks from one HIN to another although this often incurs broker fees. You can't move your HIN from one broker to another unless you move ALL the stocks you have associated with that HIN to the other broker, again usually for a fee.
As to indicators - price, volume, momentum, moving average, sometimes RSI and MACD. Which indicators you use depend upon your trading "edge" or style. The key is to find a trading "edge" that gives you a better than 65% probability of a successful trade. Why 65% - slippage, brokerage, data feed and computer/comms costs all add up.
With the Phoenix AI software - just play with it. You will eventually work out some of its more quirky features. The worst bit is layouts for market depth. You open a new market depth, initially save its layout as say "stockmd", modify the layout as you like then hit save again. I found it a bit confusing at first. If you want several types of market depth Phoenix will only remember the last saved layout in its workspace. To have two different market depth layouts you need to have saved two different layouts then when you reopen the workspace you right click on the market depth that it has restored to the last layout, select open existing layout then select the one you want.
I might do a bit of a tutorial in another thread for it later.
Phoenix AI doesn't charge you an upfront fee for their software, so you can load it onto as many backup computers as you like (I have two identical laptops that get sync'd once a month using Microsoft's Automated System Recovery (ASR) backup software included in XP Pro. I backup daily using ASR so in the event of a failure I swap laptops then run ASR to bring the second one up to an exact replica of the first). You can only connect to the data feed one at a time though. This I have found to be a bit of an issue when you use the NextG service.
What happens is that I get drop outs when I am travelling on the train between Central and Newcastle. When I reconnect through NextG after a dropout, the Phoenix AI servers still think I am connected and refuse to authenticate me. It only takes about 30 sec to a minute before they do but it is still a pain.
(On the subject of NextG - I love it. Still gives me a buzz being able to sit on the train, power up the laptop and get a fast (>1MB/s) internet connection most of the time - ok tunnels, parts of the Hawksbury and bits between Epping and Hornsby are still black holes (literally LOL) but besides that it is great for anyone on the go.)
new_trader1984
3rd-June-2007, 05:02 PM
Thanks lakemac,
Appreciate all the advice you have given.
I thought the phoenix ai software cost $395 but by doing the 2 day course got it for free?
Thanks.
debaron
19th-June-2007, 10:54 PM
beginner's question ahead..
just wondering. Considering there are so many different brokers providing so many different type of services with their own pros n cons, issit possible if we open two different online account; one with lower cost and another one with better services (eg: research/news/charts?) and only trade with the less expensive account while making full use of the one with the better services??
jammin
19th-June-2007, 11:19 PM
Yes Debaron, you can play it this way.
My partner has a full service broker and an online broker. We review information from the full service broker and trade online or may place longer term trades or invest with her full service broker.
dubiousinfo
8th-August-2007, 03:46 PM
I am looking for a new broker for ETO's. Does anyone have any views on Options Express ?
sails
8th-August-2007, 08:42 PM
I am looking for a new broker for ETO's. Does anyone have any views on Options Express ?
DI, I've found them to be OK. One of their good features is that you can place two legged orders online (as a combo) and I don't know of any other options broker that has that facility with online trading. Before OX came along, these types of orders would have to be phoned in - then another phone call if you want to adjust it, etc, etc. Unfortunately, a spread of two is all you can enter - no three/four legged creatures like butterflies or condors can be entered online - the order boxes are there, but only work with the US.
They don't have much in the way of charts for the Oz market. Plenty of tools are available for the US, but sadly lacking for Oz. No streaming data either.
I've had ongoing problems with Berndale not getting the fees right, so I keep a close eye on that and quick to let them know! They have always refunded their overcharges, but just a nuisance that they can't get it right to begin with.
I'm planning to check out IB for a bit more info - it sounds interesting.
Let me know if you have any other questions!
brianwh
16th-March-2009, 08:55 AM
I am about to open an account with an online broker to buy and sell shares for the SMSF that I am starting. I was wondering whether some online brokers stand out as better than others. I will be buying and selling equities only and will not be a high volume trader. The ones I am considering at the moment are: E*trade; Commsec and Bell direct.
brianwh
16th-March-2009, 10:22 AM
My post immediately above was moved from a new thread to this one and I have no problem with that. But I had read through the posts on this thread and did not really find the advice that I was looking for. In part it was dated, but more importantly I was hoping to canvas opinions that related specifically to experiences people had had - both positive and negative - in buying and selling equities with some of the main online brokers and advice on what really many would see as entry level or basic investing options.
Thanks in anticipation
alex keaton
2nd-April-2009, 05:28 PM
I mentioned in my previous post that Phoenix AI had first prize for now.
Well I was lucky enough to have a preview of what could be the next generation in trading platforms. I can't say too much because the product is still under wraps and due for release in about 1-2 months.
What I can say is WOW!
To say it's interface is slick is an understatement.
On first glance it is like sitting in a Ferrari or Lamborgini.
You just know this thing is fast and it is.
The approach the developers have taken in being able to visualise the market is phenomenal. Fades taken to the next step. Market replay as you have never seen it before.
The best way to describe the interface's look is to compare it to a cross between the computer game SplinterCell and a stained glass window with fully adjustable and automagically resizing glass panes (if that makes sense with my attempt at photo montage below)
I am in no way doing their interface justice.
You have to see and feel it for yourself.
There first release is missing a few things particularly in the options area and DDE interface but that is coming from what the developers have said.
There could also be some really exciting "what if" features too.
Watch this space as they say...
Wow this is digging up an old thread.
But where you talking about Spark?
Are you still using Spark? I've been using it for several months. Fantastic
bluelabel
22nd-May-2009, 12:31 PM
Just researching online brokers and commsec say they discount your trades if you are CHESS sponsored. (I'm not bad at the game, but not good enough to get sponsorship...:rolleyes:)
Seriously though does anyone know what CHESS sponsorship is?
:bier:
blue
nunthewiser
22nd-May-2009, 12:35 PM
:D i love ETRADE , they are just great ..professional , courteous , reliable ..
oh also sent me a few xmas hampers over the years also
i notice they are a paid advertiser on this great site also these days ....excellent!
blessem
the above is not a paid spruiking of etrade i did it off my own back :D
Boggo
22nd-May-2009, 01:33 PM
Seriously though does anyone know what CHESS sponsorship is?
blue
Seriously though, ever thought of doing a search on the ASX site...
http://www.asx.com.au/
bluelabel
23rd-May-2009, 06:17 AM
Seriously though, ever thought of doing a search on the ASX site...
http://www.asx.com.au/
Seriously, no i didnt, i googled it but didnt get anything worthwhile that i could find.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
:bier:
blue
persistentone
14th-July-2009, 12:22 PM
Regarding ABN AMRO, can someone help me out here? I found two different ABN AMROs. One of these is here:
This latter group is now owned by Royal Bank of Scotland, which as most of you probably know is a complete basket case right now, just completely buried by all of its bad loans. It may be too big to fail, but I would not be comfortable with them.
Can someone reflect for me on:
1) Why are there two different ABN AMROs?
2) Which of the two is the one known for its research on Australian companies?
3) How stable is the first one, the ABN AMRO Morgans?
persistentone
14th-July-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm looking for an Australian broker that meets these criteria:
- financially stable
- will deal with CHESS sponsored accounts
- good security and would get big bonus points if they have a security dongle that generates random passwords for online logins
- good analyst reports for Australian stocks
What do others think of Macquarie and Wespac?
cutz
14th-July-2009, 01:22 PM
hi persistentone,
Are you looking at trading or investing ? ,
Personally i don't know of any aussie broker that offers all the points you mentioned, IMO commsec are good as far as aussie retail brokers go but they don't offer a password key, i think the two you mentioned are a little more expensive but if your not a trader it probably won't matter too much.
persistentone
14th-July-2009, 02:09 PM
I'm looking to invest, and even the positions I trade my earliest exit would be weeks not hours or days.
The other thing is it would be nice to be able to trade options against open stock positions (covered calls primarily).
persistentone
29th-July-2009, 05:20 PM
Does anyone have feedback on ABN Amro as a broker? Their brokerage charge is 1.5%. That strikes me as HUGE.
Toranova
27th-May-2010, 06:07 PM
I've been searching around for an online broker to use for my first investment and the cheapest I've managed to find so far is e*trade with a free $550 brokerage fee until the end of june. Obviously very new to this, I've sifted through the ASX brokers pages and have struggled somewhat for who the best online broker is. Just wondering if anyone can make some recommendations?
Cheers
cutz
27th-May-2010, 07:14 PM
I've been searching around for an online broker to use for my first investment and the cheapest I've managed to find so far is e*trade with a free $550 brokerage fee until the end of june. Obviously very new to this, I've sifted through the ASX brokers pages and have struggled somewhat for who the best online broker is. Just wondering if anyone can make some recommendations?
Cheers
I take it you are looking at short term trading because low commission seems to be top of the list.
With that in mind all I have to say is the major aussie brokers are very uncompetitive, high fees coupled with primitive technology,
OK for the buy and hold set but no good if you're planning on trading actively.
