BullCharts Trial

[GreatPig]

Got my trial BullCharts software yesterday. Am buying a notebook to run it on, but it didn't turn up yesterday as was promised so I've loaded it onto my desktop in the meantime.

Thought I would make some comments about how I'm finding it as I go along. Remember though that the only other charting software I've tried at this stage is the free version of FCharts, so I don't have much to compare it to.

My first concern on opening the packet and reading the installation info was that it's a .NET application, and consequently the minimum PC requirements are quite high. I've already noticed a few delays that may become annoying, and I'm currently running it on a 3GHz P4 with 1GB of RAM. The notebook will only be a 1.8GHz Centrino, so I'll be checking that out thoroughly when it arrives.

Second thing was the installation wasn't as straight-forward as expected. The notes said "If the setup programme did not auto start, please run setup.exe from the CD". Well it didn't auto-start the first time and damned if I could find a setup.exe on the CD. On removing and replacing the CD, it did auto start but then told me to install from Control Panel (since I'm running Win2K, not XP). Did that and it showed two install files. I selected the BullCharts one only to be told I needed to do the other one first. No problem, so did that okay then did the BullCharts one okay.

Then I ran the installed BullCharts application and it came up with a DLL it couldn't find. Okay I thought, what about the .NET platform that was supposed to be installed? Didn't see anything about that. So browsed the CD again and saw a couple of .EXE files that seemed to be the .NET redistributable and a service pack. Installed both of them okay (even though they weren't mentioned in the notes) then went to Windows Update and installed the version 1.1 upgrade.

After the couple of reboots, ran BullCharts application again and it seemed to work as expected this time, wanting to install the MSDE SQL database as stated in the notes. Did that, another reboot, updated the prices, and I was finally away.

So far I've just been through the few main features they highlighted in another leaflet. Primarly that's how to select charts, create workspaces and portfolios, and save templates.

Which is the first thing I'm finding awkward. The default screen layout is the prices chart using OHLC bars in black and white and a separate volume pane. It didn't take long to find out how to change the prices to candles, change the colours, overlay the volume on the price chart (to save space), and to add some indicators (currently RSI, MACD & MACD-H, and some moving averages - the first two in separate panes and the MAs on the price chart). Then I saved all that as the default template file.

The problem is if I want to, say, hide the MAs temporarily to better look at the price patterns. I can't find any way to do it. If I select the MAs then right-click, the only suitable option is to delete them. But if I delete them, getting them back requires going through the whole setup process for them again, which always starts at default values rather than the last ones selected. It works a bit like a CAD package, in that there are options to move the lines to the back, but that doesn't stop them cluttering the display. As far I can see so far, if I delete the MAs from the screen, the only way to restore them is to either reconfigure them from scratch or load the template file back in.

Reloading the template file is quick enough, but that means I'm going to need many templates: with the MAs, without the MAs, with Guppy MMAs, without Guppy MMAs, with this indicator, without that indicator, and so on - and then all combinations of those. What I really want to be able to do is have a list of all the indicators I've configured and then be able to show or hide them individually at will.

Anyway, I'll keep investigating that issue. Maybe I'm missing something.

And a few other little issues I've noticed:

- The portfolio I made up of my (paper) trades shows commission on sales figures that it's including in the profit/loss calculation. No problem with that, but I can't see how it's calculating those figures. I entered $30 as the buy commission on all my trades (based on the ASX game rules) but it's showing $21.89 as the future sales commissions.

- When I was entering my trades, I kept having to toggle with Alt-Tab to Excel to reference my records. Every time I toggled back to BullCharts I got a scripting error message (I believe it's using IE to display the screens).

- And a big PITA: the program help is a single PDF file, not proper online help, and it doesn't have any bookmarks or hyerlinked index! There's no way to quickly find what you want, and it's a 302 page document!! Apparently a printed manual costs another $20.

Well that’s my progress so far. I’ll let you know how it continues.

GP

PS: Wow - I just noticed we have automatic censoring! Damn, damn, damn! ;D - or is that perhaps just my browser?

[Joe Blow]

PS: Wow - I just noticed we have automatic censoring! Damn, damn, damn! ;D - or is that perhaps just my browser?

Automatic censoring was set as the default.

I have now turned it off!

;D

[GreatPig]

Joe,

Okay, but d**n - it's still doing it!

GP

(just kidding, that was me ;D)

[GreatPig]

An update after spending nearly the whole day playing with this program, and skimming through the manual.

I'm still concerned about the speed of the program. There are quite long delays at times, and this is running on a 3GHz P4 with cable Internet. I gather it works on line a fair bit, despite the database supposedly being local. Whenever I select a new stock it seems to access the Internet, presumably to get the latest data from their server. Even just making a change to the preferences or whatever can make it lock up for 15-20 seconds with a lot of Internet activity. And the portfolio stuff seems to only be on their server. If I kill the Internet link, I can no longer display my portfolio (which could be a pain if I want to review things somewhere without Internet access).

The thing I mentioned about the sales commission being a strange number has been explained. Apparently it's just a number they've pulled out of their hat as a "typical" value. Don't know why they don't use the buying commission instead.

I've gotten somewhere with this problem of showing and hiding indicators. I still think it's a bit of a pain, and that what I'm doing now is more of a work-around than how it should be, but it does the job quite well. What I'm doing now is effectively making my own custom indicators by copying their ones (a function they provide) and then editing the script code to default to the values I want to use (all their indicators are written in BullScript and you can view the code for them). Then I can just delete and insert the indicators without having to configure anything, since they now default to my values. Also, the indicator selection list can be set to show custom indicators only, so all the ones I don't want to use aren't filling up the list.

While I was on the job I improved a few of them, in the sense of selecting the colours and combinations I wanted. For example, they have -DI, +DI, and ADX as three separate indicators, and while you can overlay them all on the same pane, I just made a custom indicator with all three in it - and different colours to boot. Similarly, they only provided a dual moving average whereas I wanted four, so I just changed the script to add the other two. So despite this probably not being how it should be, I'm quite happy with this part of it now. And, being a computer programmer by profession, I quite like the look of the scripting. It seems like you can do a lot with it.

Another area I've found rather frustrating to figure out is the thing about workspaces and chart files. You can save individual charts to files, including all the lines and stuff you've drawn on them. You can also have multiple files loaded at once and then save the whole setup as a workspace. But there doesn't seem to be any correlation between the saved workspace and the saved chart files. It seems like the saved workspace has its own copy of the charts and doesn't use the saved chart files.

So if I have two different workspaces with one stock common to both, if I edit the chart in one workspace then later load the other workspace, none of my changes to that common stock appear in the second workspace. I have to remove that file from the workspace and manually load the saved chart file then save the workspace again.

And there's something of a battle between saved chart files and saved templates. If I save the current setup as a template then add a trend line to a chart, applying the template again will lose the trend line. If I then load the chart file back again (with the saved trend line), it goes back to the layout I had when I saved it (ie. not as defined by the current template). So saving templates seems rather pointless to me except for the one default one for new charts.

And finally, a few more niggles I've found:

- When you have multiple files loaded at once and tabbed at the bottom of the screen, the program lets you arrange the order of the tabs but doesn't remember that in the workspace. When you next load the workspace, they just appear in any old order again.

- When adding trend lines to a chart, since I have the volume superimposed on the price chart, I sometimes end up with the trend lines tied to the volume scale rather than the price scale. It's not possible to tell though (other than by looking at the line properties) until I compress or expand the time scale, and then the lines start jumping all over the place.

- That scripting error I mentioned when entering trade details, I get that all the time when entering watchlists as well.

So my summary of the program so far is that it looks nice and seems to have a lot of features, but the speed is worrying me. And I think I'd prefer to have a local portfolio that I can examine and edit without being online, especially since I intend to run this software on a notebook.

That's it for now. More later.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

Your post was really good, much appreciated.

Will you be able to have screen shot of what it look like?

[GreatPig]

Will you be able to have screen shot of what it look like?
Your wish is my command! ;D

A few screen captures of the charting, portfolio, and scripting. I haven't played with the scanner yet.

Cheers,
GP

[GreatPig]

Summary of trades:

[GreatPig]

Script editing:

[GreatPig]

Market Depth:

[GreatPig]

News items:

[GreatPig]

And finally a couple showing a summary of the data available for a particular share:

[GreatPig]

<continued...>

[JetDollars]

Thank GreatPig....Look very impressive.

When you request a 14 days trial, they send you a package of the software and instruction....

What happen after 14 days if you are not interested? do you have to send the whole lot back?

[GreatPig]

What happen after 14 days if you are not interested? do you have to send the whole lot back?
Not sure yet. I presume they'll disable my access to their server, but I don't think I'll need to send anything back. All they sent was a CD and a few sheets of paper.

I'll have to see if I can get another program to trial as well, for something better to compare it to than just the free FCharts.

GP

[GreatPig]

Oh, and one final niggle for tonight:

When I went to shut down the program, it wouldn't close. I had to use task manager to kill it.

Cheers,
GP

[stefan]

I used bullstation for almost a year. It has set me back $149/month which I considered too expensive. It was working fine but I found the news section rather bad. They provided me with a beta version that had a real time news update section but it still had a few problems. All in all, I'd rather have a trading platform where I can buy/sell as well instead of only getting market data.

I used to trade with realtick for the US market and I wouldn't mind at all having a tool like that for the OZ market. Unfortunatelly I haven't found anything like it so far.

Happy trading

Stefan

[GreatPig]

Well I pretty much gave up on BullCharts today: the delays have become pathetic. Neary every time I select a different stock the program freezes for at least 10 seconds - sometimes more than 30 seconds - before the next chart is displayed. Many other operations cause multi-second freezes as well. I'm a computer programmer by profession and one thing I hate more than just about anything is software that regularly makes me wait like this!

Okay, the program looks nice and seems quite powerful, but how long will it take me to go through all the charts of my portfolio if I'm getting 20-30 second delays nearly every time I do something? I've got better things to do with my life than constantly twiddle my thumbs waiting for a screen to update.

Not only are there delays, but it's also using a lot of CPU time (and remember I'm using a 3GHz P4 with 1GB of RAM here). When just sitting there doing nothing it doesn't use much CPU time, but even a simple thing like just moving the mouse over the chart (with crosshairs) make's its CPU time jump up to 30%-35%. More significant actions take it quickly to 50% and higher. Many actions feel like swimming through treacle: viscous is perhaps a good description of the user interface.

And it now looks like it won't work at all if there's no Internet connection. I tried killing the link again, and after a minute or two it showed a loss of connection to their server, causing the program to lock up indefinitely. I couldn't click on menus or anything, and would have had to use task manager to kill it. After I restored the Internet connection, it took another 30-60 seconds before it started working again. Since I'm intending to install this on a notebook, I want to be able to study my charts and what-not without having to be connected to the Internet.

Anyway, since I've got it for another two weeks, I'll at least try installing it on the notebook when I do get that to see if it's any different. If it's the same or worse, then I wouldn't use it even if it was free (although I'll get on to Weblink and ask them about the problem first).

With that pretty much decided earlier this morning, I thought I'd try something else. So I downloaded AmiBroker and have been playing with that for the rest of the day. For the TA part alone, I can see some things are more flexible in BullCharts, like the ability to overlay custom indicators on existing panes, but AmiBroker has some better features too. And its scripting language looks more powerful. It's also much cheaper - the pro version being US$199 compared to A$795 for BullCharts (although I could probably get it for A$695). BullCharts does have online access to company information and news items though, and allows multiple trade portfolios (AmiBroker only seems to have one). OTOH, AmiBroker can import any type of text or Metastock data file, so I can use it and the free FCharts at the same time with the same data if I want to.

I'll play with AmiBroker some more (although the trial version doesn't allow saving of the database, which is a bit of a pain) and might go over that one in another thread later. If anyone else here's using it, what do you think of it?

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

Have to trial IncredibleCharts yet? if you haven't then I think you should because it give you 30 days free.

I am trialing it at the moment and found it quite good. The other good thing about it is that you don't have to buy the software. It's for free.

http://www.incrediblecharts.com.au

[GreatPig]

Thanks JetDollars. I'll take a look at that one too.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

I take a look at FCharts this morning and download it. I will install and test it when I get home.

Which sit do you used for your free DATA? what is your rating for the data that you download?

[GreatPig]

I take a look at FCharts this morning and download it.
I find it quite good for basic chart viewing, but the free version has rather limited facilities - only a few indicators and things.


Which sit do you used for your free DATA?
http://www.float.com.au


what is your rating for the data that you download?
You mean quality?

Seems to be okay, although I don't think the historical data has been corrected for splits, etc. A few stocks have big cliffs in them which I don't think are natural price falls.

Their historical data goes back to 1997.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

Thanks GP. I will be trialling FCharts in the near future.

GP, I am currently still using my pentium 3, 650mhz, 128ram, do you think it's worth it for BullCharts 14 days trial? I am thinking it's to be way too slow comparing to your PC or Laptop.

[GreatPig]

I am currently still using my pentium 3, 650mhz, 128ram, do you think it's worth it for BullCharts 14 days trial?
Sorry, JetDollars, I missed your message here.

The minimum PC spec for running BullCharts is a 900MHz P4 with 256MB of RAM. Plus you need either Win2K or XP, as I don't think the .NET platform runs on other OS's.

I got the laptop and installed BullCharts (on XP) but it is just the same. Regular freezes when changing charts or whatever and enormous amounts of CPU time. As before, just moving the mouse around the screen can jump the program's CPU time to figures like 30% or more, and when the program freezes while changing charts for example, the CPU time jumps to around 99% for most of that time.

So I've canned that program and bought AmiBroker instead. Just got the registration key this morning. It's much cheaper (US$129) and seems to be pretty good for general charting and stuff. It lacks the online features of BullCharts, like live market depth and news, but there are a few real time features available with the more expensive package (US$199). Not sure exactly what though.

And of course if I eventually find this lacks some useful features, I can always look at buying other software as well. I gather some of the professional traders use multiple packages to get the best features of each.

Anyway, I'll see how I go with this.

Cheers,
GP

[WaySolid]

The minimum PC spec for running BullCharts is a 900MHz P4 with 256MB of RAM. Plus you need either Win2K or XP, as I don't think the .NET platform runs on other OS's. Great Pig.

Wow. I have the CD trial ready to install, and was intending to trial it. Seeing as I have an Athlon 600, with 192 Ram (the older Ram as well) I'm not sure if I should even bother now :)

[GreatPig]

WaySolid,

Looking at their specs again, I notice they don't actually say "P4", and they're also "recommended requirements", not minimum specs. So it will probably still work on your computer (provided it's using Win2K or XP).

They actually say:


Recommended Requirements:

- CPU 900MHz or greater
- MS Windows 2000 Pro or XP
- 256MB RAM or greater
- 550MB free hard disk space
- Cable or broadband Internet connection
- Accelerator video card
- MS IE6.0 or greater
But it should say that on the sheet you would presumably have gotten with the CD.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

Thank you for your info. I guess I have to buy a new PC soon. I got this old PC since 2000 so it's time to update my PC.

Now I am thinking a laptop instead, but as you described above BullCharts need internet connection, so no point of having it, but I might give it a trial for 14 days to see it for myself.

Thanks once again.

[GreatPig]

I had a call from the Weblink guy about my BullCharts trial and told him about the speed problems I'd been having. While acknowledging that the program can be heavy on resources, being a .NET application, he stated that my experience is atypical of their users - at this stage for reasons uncertain.

One thing that did come to light is that they distribute the product with a copy of the version 1.0 .NET platform but I upgraded mine to version 1.1 from Windows Update. He says there are known issues with this version which might be causing my problems. I'm now going to uninstall version 1.1 and reinstall version 1.0 to see if it makes any difference.

So if you're going to do the trial, don't upgrade your .NET platform to version 1.1. Stick with version 1.0.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

I got the CD today and will install it when I have sometime. I don't want to install it now because if time limited. Maybe I will install it this saturday and I will give you an update once I get it up and running.

[still_in_school]

Hey Guys,

in all honestly, i find that e*trades interactive charts, is more than sufficient, in the trading... i do, honestly, you only need a few indicators, to be able to draw some quick trendlines up, be able to save it or print, but also having the option to email it, but also that e*trade interactive charts, maybe not live streaming, but if you hit the refresh button, you will get live data of how the market is, in that particular moment and second, on that day...

for the live intraday charts, best and easier to use, there trading platforms, as they are live streaming, and have the option, to add in some indicators, but mainly giving you the price display, in OHLC, OHL, line, candle, and so on... and with only 10 trades a month, the platform, will cost you nothing in using it.

Cheers,
sis

[GreatPig]

Spent a fair amount of time again today (oops... I mean yesterday now ;D) looking at BullCharts again. I did the uninstall and reinstall of the .NET platform, only installing version 1.0 this time.

On my desktop PC running Win2K, I immediately had problems with BullCharts running slow again. On the notebook running XP, I had one lockup when first starting BullCharts after reinstalling the .NET platform, but then it ran fine for the rest of the day. During that time, switching charts was acceptably fast. However, in the early evening it started to run slow again with lock-ups lasting between 5 and 40 seconds when changing charts, and using 99% CPU time while frozen. Once it started doing it, it then did it all the time, even after restarting the program and even rebooting the PC. It is still doing it.

So I've sent a summary of my findings to the guy at Weblink, along with a few screen captures showing the program obviously locked up.

And that's it for me. I'd be interested to hear how anyone else got on with the program.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

I just install BullCharts on my machine and here are my finding:

First of all I want to remind you that I am using Pentium 3, 650MHz, 128Mb RAM, XP. If you compare my PC to your is not where near it.

OK, here we go:
1. I got no problem what so ever installing BullCharts, it go very smoothly. Thumb up for me.

2. Once BullCharts installed I start to play around with chart and yes it take about 7 to 15 seconds to loan each chart. So instead of connecting to the BullSystems every time I want to look at different stock I do the followings

3. I start download the latest EOD data for BullSystems, it take a while because I have to update a bit more than 2 weeks data.

4. Once the download complete I disconnect BullCharts from the server before start using the chart. Since it's now working offline, it is extremely fast. It take line 2-3 seconds to load each stock chart.

5. The good things about bullcharts that I just found is that it provide high, low, close moving averages price, so I don't have to code it.

So, overall performance is a thumb up for me. I enjoy using BullCharts than IncredibleCharts.

By do what I wrote above you therefore can check and play around with chart on the train without having to connect to BullSystems Server.

Therefore, your finding and my finding is completely of different opinions.

I will continue using BullChart for the next 2 weeks and give an update here.

[GreatPig]

JetDollars,

Thanks for the feedback.


I got no problem what so ever installing BullCharts
I didn't on the XP notebook either, only on the Win2K machine.


Since it's now working offline, it is extremely fast. It take line 2-3 seconds to load each stock chart.
Yes it is faster when completely offline. 2-3 seconds is still pretty slow though. Chart display in AmiBroker is instantaneous.


The good things about bullcharts that I just found is that it provide high, low, close moving averages price, so I don't have to code it.
They have a lot of built-in indicators, which makes it pretty easy. However, I found it a problem that I couldn't easily hide and restore them, only delete and reinsert them. When I want to study price patterns, I don't like the chart cluttered with MAs and PSARs, and want to hide them. FCharts was easy in that respect with a right-click menu option to hide and show the MAs.

I'll be interested to see how it's going after you've been using it for a few days.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

1. Is there a trial version for AmiBroker? I also want to trial like BullCharts.

2. How much does it cost for the software?
3. EOD data cost?

[GreatPig]

JetDollars,

You can trial the full AmiBroker software by downloading it from their Website. The unregistered version won't allow the database to be saved though, so you can import all the data files and play with the charts, but you can't save any of it.

They have two versions, the basic version for US$129 and the full version for US$199. The latter has extra stuff mainly for real-time trading. I bought the basic one.

The program can read all sorts of data formats, and in fact you can design your own if you need to. I just read in the free EOD data I download from float.com.au, but I gather it also works with a few live data services if you want that.

So far it been going good and I like it.

They're at http://www.amibroker.com/.

Cheers,
GP

[JetDollars]

Thanks GreatPig

I will look into it and will give it a trial in the near future.

Eventhough I like BullCharts at this stage. I found it quite expensive just to purchase the software ie. $795. But it EOD data at $352 per annum is quite reasonable.

[JetDollars]

GreatPig,

OK, I now also give up on BullCharts. It work fine if you work offline as I mention in the previous posted, but that not what I always want to do and that's not the purpose of spending $795 just to go offline.

It take too long to start BullCharts and it locked up most of the applications that are open. So it is quite annoying because I have to sit there and wait for the application finally open.

It take too long to load your existing portfolio and yes while I am typing BullCharts still loading my portfolio and it's over 3 *minutes already.

In short, as soon as you go online, it take too long for everythings that's including getting the latest news and so for.

Conclusion, give up, but will trial again if I buy a new laptop in the future.

My trial so far, the cheapest the better it is like FCharts, IncredibleCharts.

My next trial will be AmiBroker....

[still_in_school]

Hi Guys,

honestly, what etrade and comsec offer, is more than essential, the only problem is you have to be online...

Cheers,
sis

[JetDollars]

Hi Guys,

honestly, what etrade and comsec offer, is more than essential, the only problem is you have to be online...

Cheers,
sis

SIS,

You can draw trenline in ComSec and the indicators is limited. Can you get Moving Average for highest or lowest price? No because comsec only give MA for closing price.

Jet$