The US stock markets are largely manipulated these days and it became very obvious to me and my futures trading colleagues. It's one of the reasons for my comments on the US elsewhere.
Check out this article: :sly:
http://safehaven.com/article-4717.htm
March 05, 2006
The Plunge Protection Team Intervention Risk Indicator
by Robert McHugh
For the past several years, we have seen repeated "out of the blue" short-covering rallies just about the time a decline seems to be gaining some momentum. Our suspicion has been that the "Working Group" established by law in 1988 to buy markets should declines get out of control has become far more interventionist than was originally intended under the law. This group has since been dubbed the Plunge Protection Team. There are no minutes of meetings, no recorded phone conversations, no reports of activities, no announcements of intentions. It is a secret group including the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Head of the SEC, and their surrogates which include some of the large Wall Street firms. The original objective was to prevent disastrous market crashes. Lately it seems, they buy markets when they decide markets need to be bought, including equity markets. Their main resource is the money the Fed prints. The money is injected into markets via the New York Fed's Repo desk, which easily showed up in the M-3 numbers, warning intervention was nigh.
This past November, the Fed announced with little comment and no palatable explanation that it would no longer report the M-3 number after March 2006. It is now almost March 2006. Without the useful resource of M-3, we need to find other tools to monitor when the PPT is likely to intervene, and kill shorts..........................
Knobby22
6th-March-2006, 11:08 AM
Have to get Soros onto it.
I have to admit that this article you found Wayne makes me more scared of a terrible collapse in the US. Is the place run by idiots? And this from a country that pretends to represent free trade and laissez faire economic controls. The next President better be of better material.
wayneL
6th-March-2006, 11:36 AM
Have to get Soros onto it.
I have to admit that this article you found Wayne makes me more scared of a terrible collapse in the US. Is the place run by idiots? And this from a country that pretends to represent free trade and laissez faire economic controls. The next President better be of better material.
The US is run increasingly by ideologues with little regard for freedom at all. (patriot act for instance) The US government no longer acts as a representitive of the people, rather as an entity that protects itself from the people.
The T word is the ideal emotional latch with which to keep the sheeple distracted. I am convinced we will see an increasingly totalitarian regime in the US... and even the UK. There are some very disturbing pieces of legislation in both countries.
....and here for that matter :eek:
happytrader
6th-March-2006, 12:15 PM
The US stock markets are largely manipulated these days and it became very obvious to me and my futures trading colleagues. It's one of the reasons for my comments on the US elsewhere.
Check out this article: :sly:
http://safehaven.com/article-4717.htm
Hi Wayne
Your market observances do not surprise me, after all its no secret the US tries to control everything.
Welcome home.
Cheers
Happytrader
professor_frink
6th-March-2006, 12:45 PM
IMHO, the very scary part of all this is what happens when the wheels finally fall off(which they eventually will) and the market falls even with their intervention? :(
How much money are they going to print then?
that will have a lovely effect on inflation!
Dunno how much more they can lie about those figures :D
On the other hand I'd rather not think about that too much, I might start feeling depressed!
ctp6360
6th-March-2006, 01:01 PM
This will probably sound ignorant, but is the Australian stock market subject to any artifitial manipulation along these lines? Is it even possible?
happytrader
6th-March-2006, 01:16 PM
This will probably sound ignorant, but is the Australian stock market subject to any artifitial manipulation along these lines? Is it even possible?
Hi ctp6360
I've always said so. Its 'they' or the institutions that move the big bluechips. That business of closing the market at 4.15pm was very interesting. As traders we are merely looking for 'tracks' and playing follow the leader. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
Cheers
Happytrader
wayneL
6th-March-2006, 01:24 PM
This will probably sound ignorant, but is the Australian stock market subject to any artifitial manipulation along these lines? Is it even possible?
Every market can and does get manipulated by the big players... end of quarter/year window dressing, pump and dumps, fraudulent financial statements etc being prime examples.
These are part and parcel of markets, whether it's stock markets or the local fruit and veg. It's part of the landscape we've all had to deal with...always.
The ASX is no exception. But as far as I'm aware, there is no gu'mint intervention.
If that happens, I'm off to Patagonia.
wayneL
25th-November-2008, 11:13 AM
FYI
V-qufOWDawU
Ageo
25th-November-2008, 01:59 PM
Hehe the more and more i watch these clowns on CNBC etc.... the more and more i realize most of them have no idea and i cant believe they get air time. Out of all those speaking only 1 made sense (but nooooo our U.S government doesnt manipulate!!!!) living in denial will only set them back further.
kennas
25th-November-2008, 02:10 PM
I do wonder how the trading is executed though.
Does the Govt have accounts with various brokers to manipulte the market, or is GWB and HP sitting in the Oval Office on their laptops buying big through Comsec?
wayneL
25th-November-2008, 02:17 PM
I do wonder how the trading is executed though.
Does the Govt have accounts with various brokers to manipulte the market, or is GWB and HP sitting in the Oval Office on their laptops buying big through Comsec?
I am told it is via Goldman Sachs. Apparently GS a/c 95 is the PPT account.
Disclaimer: Complete hearsay.
prawn_86
25th-November-2008, 02:27 PM
I am told it is via Goldman Sachs. Apparently GS a/c 95 is the PPT account.
Disclaimer: Complete hearsay.
I would have thought it would be with JP Morgan.
JP are the only untouchable investment bank with a blank cheque from the fed it seems
wayneL
25th-November-2008, 02:34 PM
I would have thought it would be with JP Morgan.
JP are the only untouchable investment bank with a blank cheque from the fed it seems
Hmmm.... it was a while ago. I'm sure it was GS, but you may be right.
Deep into idle banter territory here. :o
MRC & Co
25th-November-2008, 02:40 PM
I would have thought it would be with JP Morgan.
JP are the only untouchable investment bank with a blank cheque from the fed it seems
JP Morgan were the fed in the early 1900s weren't they! ha ha.
Provided liquidity back then when there was none.
Ageo
25th-November-2008, 07:14 PM
JP Morgan were the fed in the early 1900s weren't they! ha ha.
Provided liquidity back then when there was none.
Well JP Morgan was 1 (of the few) who actually helped pass the Federal Reserve Act (1913) hmmm
MRC & Co
25th-November-2008, 07:22 PM
Yeh, in a crash a few years before that, there were literally no buyers, banks were out of cash. Mr Morgan himself had to release funds from what I read (reminiscences). Basically the same as the Fed.
prawn_86
25th-November-2008, 08:55 PM
And that sentiment still echoes through today. Who was it that received the Fed backing to take over Bear Stearns? JP of course.
JP Morgan is the public, buying up stuff, face of the Fed/gov imo, thats why i would be very surprised if the PPT use a Goldman Sachs account. But its all pure speculation and its just what i think
chops_a_must
26th-November-2008, 12:32 AM
I remember seeing that at the time on CNBC. Cracked me up. Posted about it on one of your other PPT threads WayneL. ;)
JP Morgan is the one stock in the US I don't even bother looking at for plays. Its chart defies gravity... and defies me. :rolleyes:
The other night, CNBC were saying, "Why is Citi tanking? Its balance sheet is exactly the same as JP Morgan's." LOL... yep... it sure is. But who is going to go to town on it?
On 06 October 2008, the working group issued a statement indicating that it was taking multiple actions available to it in order to attempt to stabilize the financial system, although purchase of stock shares was not part of the statement.[12] The government may wind up owning shares in the firms to which it has provided loans, as they will receive warrants as collateral for these loans.
prawn_86
26th-November-2008, 08:45 AM
JP Morgan is the one stock in the US I don't even bother looking at for plays. Its chart defies gravity... and defies me. :rolleyes:
.
They say some banks etc are to big to fail, IMO JP is too big and too intertwined to even look like it might come close to failing. Havn't seen them cutting too many jobs either... ;)
Aussiejeff
26th-November-2008, 09:21 AM
They say some banks etc are to big to fail, IMO JP is too big and too intertwined to even look like it might come close to failing. Havn't seen them cutting too many jobs either... ;)
FAILURE in the Modern World is such a dirty, dirty word, Brother Prawn. ;)
Especially FAILURE of the much-vaunted Capitalist System.
Remember, modern-day GuvMint$ can never admit to a FAILURE. Of course, the stoopid idiot peasants just vote/boot them out for no good reason whatsoever - but hey, they NEVER fail. :cool:
US Big banks are just Pseudo US GuvMint departments anyway. They are so inter-meshed (never-ending secret meetings & deals with officials) it just isn't funny - or maybe it IS laughable.
Of course, NO US GuvMint officials would have significant share holdings (and thus conflicts of interest) in any of the big banks, would they? Oh, no. :)
It's all good, Brother.
Limitless funds by the MenInBlack will save the day, hey?
sinner
26th-November-2008, 02:22 PM
In terms of JP Morgan and Chase, this is worth a read:
http://www.gata.org/node/6873
kennas
26th-November-2008, 02:30 PM
Limitless funds by the MenInBlack will save the day, hey?Interesting point AJ.
Keep backing your logic, or what the 'powers at be' create?
The logicsticians said the last bull run was doomed more than 2 years ago, but they missed a lot of gains. Lots!
There seems to be no logic in trading except accepting there is no logic.
There is no spoon!
This normal event will result in changing a few funnymental investors into tech traders until their emotion has the better of them...once again...
