Battman64
25th-June-2005, 02:02 PM
Many old hands are still to learn:
"Buy low & sell high to make money;
Sell high & buy low to make money."
"Buy low & sell high to make money;
Sell high & buy low to make money."
View Full Version : WD Gann: Rules for Trading
tech/a
25th-June-2005, 02:46 PM
Many talk the talk but cant walk the walk.
Old hands are generally under estimated.
Old hands are generally under estimated.
tech/a
25th-June-2005, 05:15 PM
Many old hands are still to learn:
"Buy low & sell high to make money;
Sell high & buy low to make money."
This OLD hand believes that "timing and entry" as the adage above says wont GUARENTEE success,what you do in the way of Risk management and Money Management will determine if your profitable.Its not just a matter of setting stops and determining position size either.
Nor does it matter what you choose as your trading tool.
Fundamental analysis,Technical analysis,Elliot wave.Fibonacci,Steidlmayer,Gann or a dart board.
Perhaps some pictures to explain my point.
There are many more examples like this that I've traded.
ALL,QBE,PMN.
Perhaps its not wise to judge.
"Buy low & sell high to make money;
Sell high & buy low to make money."
This OLD hand believes that "timing and entry" as the adage above says wont GUARENTEE success,what you do in the way of Risk management and Money Management will determine if your profitable.Its not just a matter of setting stops and determining position size either.
Nor does it matter what you choose as your trading tool.
Fundamental analysis,Technical analysis,Elliot wave.Fibonacci,Steidlmayer,Gann or a dart board.
Perhaps some pictures to explain my point.
There are many more examples like this that I've traded.
ALL,QBE,PMN.
Perhaps its not wise to judge.
Battman64
25th-June-2005, 06:52 PM
"Buy Low and Sell High"
This simply means that you identify an area of Support
ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double bottoms 50% etc
Buy low when the market is moving away from this area.
Place a stoploss a few points away (under the area of Support)
If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit
when the market turns.
Or trade to:
"Sell High and Buy Low"
This simply means that you identify an area of Resistance
ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double tops 100% etc
Sell high when the market is moving away from this area.
Place a stoploss a few points away (above the Resistance)
If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit
when the market turns.
This is trading what You see with great Risk Management.
This simply means that you identify an area of Support
ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double bottoms 50% etc
Buy low when the market is moving away from this area.
Place a stoploss a few points away (under the area of Support)
If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit
when the market turns.
Or trade to:
"Sell High and Buy Low"
This simply means that you identify an area of Resistance
ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double tops 100% etc
Sell high when the market is moving away from this area.
Place a stoploss a few points away (above the Resistance)
If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit
when the market turns.
This is trading what You see with great Risk Management.
Battman64
25th-June-2005, 07:31 PM
TWENTY-FOUR NEVER-FAILING RULES By W D GANN
1. Amount of capital to use: Divide your capital into 10 equal parts and never risk more than one-tenth of your capital in any one trade.
2. Use stop loss orders. Always protect a trade when you make it with a stop loss order 3 to 5 points away.
3. Never overtrade. This would be violating your capital rule.
4. Never let a profit run into a loss. After you have made a profit or 3 points or more, raise your stop loss order so that you will have no loss of capital.
5. Do not buck the trend. Never buy or sell if you are not sure of the trend according to your charts.
6. When in doubt, get out, and don’t get in when in doubt.
7. Trade only in active stocks. Keep out of slow, dead ones.
8. Equal distribution of risk. Trade in 4 or 5 stocks, if possible. Avoid tying up all your capital in any one stock.
9. Never limit your orders or fix a buying or selling price. Trade at the market.
10. Don’t close your trades without good reason. Follow up with a stop loss order to protect your profits.
11. Accumulate a surplus. After your have made a series of successful trades, put some money into surplus account to be used only in emergency or times of panic.
12. Never buy just to get a dividend.
13. Never average a loss. This is one of the worst decisions a trader can make.
14. Never get out of the market just because you have lost patience or get into the market just because you are anxious from waiting.
15. Avoid taking small profits and big losses.
16. Never cancel a stop loss order after you have placed it at the time you make a trade.
17. Avoid getting in and out of the market too often.
18. Be just as willing to sell short as you are to buy. Let your object be to keep with the trend and make money.
19. Never buy just because the price of a stock is low or sell short just because the price is high.
20. Be careful about pyramiding at the wrong time. Wait until the stock is very active and has crossed resistance levels before buying more.
21. Select the stocks with small volume of shares outstanding to pyramid on the buying side and the ones with the largest volume of stock outstanding to sell short.
22. Never hedge. If you are long one stock and it starts to go down, do not sell another stock short to hedge it. Get out at the market; take your loss and wait for another opportunity.
23. Never change your position in the market without good reason. When you make a trade, let it be for some good reason or according to some definite plan; then do not get out without a definite indication of a change in trend.
24. Avoid increasing your trading after a long period of success or a period of profitable trades.
__________________
Thanks Mofra for typing this in another thread.
1. Amount of capital to use: Divide your capital into 10 equal parts and never risk more than one-tenth of your capital in any one trade.
2. Use stop loss orders. Always protect a trade when you make it with a stop loss order 3 to 5 points away.
3. Never overtrade. This would be violating your capital rule.
4. Never let a profit run into a loss. After you have made a profit or 3 points or more, raise your stop loss order so that you will have no loss of capital.
5. Do not buck the trend. Never buy or sell if you are not sure of the trend according to your charts.
6. When in doubt, get out, and don’t get in when in doubt.
7. Trade only in active stocks. Keep out of slow, dead ones.
8. Equal distribution of risk. Trade in 4 or 5 stocks, if possible. Avoid tying up all your capital in any one stock.
9. Never limit your orders or fix a buying or selling price. Trade at the market.
10. Don’t close your trades without good reason. Follow up with a stop loss order to protect your profits.
11. Accumulate a surplus. After your have made a series of successful trades, put some money into surplus account to be used only in emergency or times of panic.
12. Never buy just to get a dividend.
13. Never average a loss. This is one of the worst decisions a trader can make.
14. Never get out of the market just because you have lost patience or get into the market just because you are anxious from waiting.
15. Avoid taking small profits and big losses.
16. Never cancel a stop loss order after you have placed it at the time you make a trade.
17. Avoid getting in and out of the market too often.
18. Be just as willing to sell short as you are to buy. Let your object be to keep with the trend and make money.
19. Never buy just because the price of a stock is low or sell short just because the price is high.
20. Be careful about pyramiding at the wrong time. Wait until the stock is very active and has crossed resistance levels before buying more.
21. Select the stocks with small volume of shares outstanding to pyramid on the buying side and the ones with the largest volume of stock outstanding to sell short.
22. Never hedge. If you are long one stock and it starts to go down, do not sell another stock short to hedge it. Get out at the market; take your loss and wait for another opportunity.
23. Never change your position in the market without good reason. When you make a trade, let it be for some good reason or according to some definite plan; then do not get out without a definite indication of a change in trend.
24. Avoid increasing your trading after a long period of success or a period of profitable trades.
__________________
Thanks Mofra for typing this in another thread.
Battman64
25th-June-2005, 08:01 PM
Some great trading rules by W D Gann
I have highlighted the relevant rules.
Taken from "45 Years in Wall Street"
Published in 1949
Gann goes on to say:
"When you decide to make a trade be sure that you are not violating any of these 24 rules which are vital and important to your success. When you close a trade with a loss, go over these rules and see which rule you have violated; then do not make the same mistake the second time."
I have highlighted the relevant rules.
Taken from "45 Years in Wall Street"
Published in 1949
Gann goes on to say:
"When you decide to make a trade be sure that you are not violating any of these 24 rules which are vital and important to your success. When you close a trade with a loss, go over these rules and see which rule you have violated; then do not make the same mistake the second time."
tech/a
26th-June-2005, 08:45 AM
Batts
There is some great stuff here.
Not every single adage is applicable to every single trading style.
I prefer to trade this way.
Buy high and sell higher
If I traded short.
Buy low and sell lower
But definately information that is of great benifit to any trader.
Losses are part of business---any business---how you minimise and react to loss is more important than attempting the impossible and eliminating ALL loss.
There is some great stuff here.
Not every single adage is applicable to every single trading style.
I prefer to trade this way.
Buy high and sell higher
If I traded short.
Buy low and sell lower
But definately information that is of great benifit to any trader.
Losses are part of business---any business---how you minimise and react to loss is more important than attempting the impossible and eliminating ALL loss.
Battman64
26th-June-2005, 01:06 PM
If I traded short.
Why do you not trade short?
?
Why do you not trade short?
?
Battman64
26th-June-2005, 07:33 PM
Rule No.18. Be just as willing to sell short as you are to buy.
More money can be made on the bear side, usually in a much shorter space of time.
"Up on the stairs, down on the elevator"
Why do you not trade short?
More money can be made on the bear side, usually in a much shorter space of time.
"Up on the stairs, down on the elevator"
Why do you not trade short?
tech/a
26th-June-2005, 08:01 PM
Why do you not trade short?
I choose not to.
I choose not to.
Battman64
27th-June-2005, 08:14 PM
I choose not to.
No Worries.
No Worries.
Battman64
3rd-July-2005, 01:19 PM
TWENTY-FOUR NEVER-FAILING RULES By W D GANN
(see post #5 for full list of rules 1 to 24)
__________________
Just thought I should mention that Gann gave us FOUR more rules when trading commodities.
(see post #5 for full list of rules 1 to 24)
__________________
Just thought I should mention that Gann gave us FOUR more rules when trading commodities.
Battman64
4th-July-2005, 06:02 PM
Now I wonder if we have anybody here interested in trading Commodity Futures
or just simply interested in trading using rules by W D Gann.
or just simply interested in trading using rules by W D Gann.
Battman64
4th-July-2005, 06:32 PM
My speciality is trading the Share Price Index (SPI) here in Australia.
Using many of the rules learnt from years of study of W D Gann.
I also wonder if we have any interest here in trading the SPI.
Using many of the rules learnt from years of study of W D Gann.
I also wonder if we have any interest here in trading the SPI.
RichKid
4th-July-2005, 06:38 PM
My speciality is trading the Share Price Index (SPI) here in Australia.
Using many of the rules learnt from years of study of W D Gann.
I also wonder if we have any interest here in trading the SPI.
Battman64,
A suggestion: Why don't you post some current charts of the SPI in the Derivatives forum with your comentary and trade descriptions/tactics and the SPI traders/observers will probably make themselves known. Or you can continue with your description of Gann's rules and its application to commodities in this thread.
Please stay on thread as I've already had to create this thread as you went off topic in the last thread you posted in. Your cooperation is much appreciated. I am interested in both the topics mentioned above so you can post asap, I'm sure there are others who will be interested.
Thanks!
PS Please see the asf code of conduct (link at foot of each page) and posting guidelines (thread at top of each forum).
Using many of the rules learnt from years of study of W D Gann.
I also wonder if we have any interest here in trading the SPI.
Battman64,
A suggestion: Why don't you post some current charts of the SPI in the Derivatives forum with your comentary and trade descriptions/tactics and the SPI traders/observers will probably make themselves known. Or you can continue with your description of Gann's rules and its application to commodities in this thread.
Please stay on thread as I've already had to create this thread as you went off topic in the last thread you posted in. Your cooperation is much appreciated. I am interested in both the topics mentioned above so you can post asap, I'm sure there are others who will be interested.
Thanks!
PS Please see the asf code of conduct (link at foot of each page) and posting guidelines (thread at top of each forum).
Battman64
6th-July-2005, 08:13 PM
25. Don't guess when the market is top. Let the market prove it is top.
Don't guess when the market is bottom. Let the market prove it is bottom.
By following definite rules, you can do this.
26. Do not follow another man's advice unless you know that he knows more
than you.
27. Reduce trading after first loss.; never increase.
28. Avoid getting in wrong and out wrong; getting in right and out wrong; this
is making double mistakes.
From: "How to make Profits in commodities" By W D Gann 1942
Don't guess when the market is bottom. Let the market prove it is bottom.
By following definite rules, you can do this.
26. Do not follow another man's advice unless you know that he knows more
than you.
27. Reduce trading after first loss.; never increase.
28. Avoid getting in wrong and out wrong; getting in right and out wrong; this
is making double mistakes.
From: "How to make Profits in commodities" By W D Gann 1942
Battman64
6th-July-2005, 08:20 PM
Sorry for the delay, I have been busy trading and teaching these methods.
BXP
11th-July-2005, 04:01 PM
i see Gann has a few books. Is that one you mention the best? Where do you teach? Do you have a website?
Knobby22
11th-July-2005, 05:01 PM
I've heard that Gann's method doesn't work and Gann died broke.
It appears to involve a lot of mumbo jumbo to me. Does anyone trade successfully with this method?
It appears to involve a lot of mumbo jumbo to me. Does anyone trade successfully with this method?
Battman64
11th-July-2005, 05:33 PM
I think for a beginner "45 years in Wall Street" is easier to read and understand.
Perth is where I trade from and teach Gann's techniques.
Only one person a day, one on one tuition.
Gann works for me and a few people that I have taught over the last two years.
I do have a private website and I am presently heavily booked.
My only hope is that people talk about me fifty years after my death......
Perth is where I trade from and teach Gann's techniques.
Only one person a day, one on one tuition.
Gann works for me and a few people that I have taught over the last two years.
I do have a private website and I am presently heavily booked.
My only hope is that people talk about me fifty years after my death......
mit
11th-July-2005, 05:36 PM
I've heard the same. I felt a bit the same about Elliot waves but all of the Elliot fans who have posted live calls have convinced me to keep an open mind and maybe buy a book on it one day. I haven't seen any live Gann calls as of yet. (Hint, Hint Battman64!)
MIT
MIT
Milk Man
11th-July-2005, 05:38 PM
I think he was broke to millionaire a few times- you try working out a trading system that works all the time with a pen and paper. :D
His rules seem to be o.k. but I don't know about his system.
His rules seem to be o.k. but I don't know about his system.
Battman64
11th-July-2005, 07:37 PM
You will find Gann rules in most, if not all trading systems.
Mofra
11th-July-2005, 08:21 PM
You will find Gann rules in most, if not all trading systems.
I agree Battman, personally I find little difference between many of his price rules and fibonacchis. It is the introduction of time that first set him apart from Dow theory, fibos etc.
I agree Battman, personally I find little difference between many of his price rules and fibonacchis. It is the introduction of time that first set him apart from Dow theory, fibos etc.
mit
12th-July-2005, 09:09 AM
Mofra,
I don't think using astrology is much like other trading systems. Also the Gann education websites seem to pump him up to such an extent that using it you can make accurate predictions of turning points. No other TA system goes that far.
Other TA systems, excluding the scamsters, are more a balance of probability things rather than actual predictions.
I think that it is a little annoying that I have seen on a number of forums Gann followers pumping Gann up, showing hindsite trades but not putting the system on the line by making trading live.
MIT
I don't think using astrology is much like other trading systems. Also the Gann education websites seem to pump him up to such an extent that using it you can make accurate predictions of turning points. No other TA system goes that far.
Other TA systems, excluding the scamsters, are more a balance of probability things rather than actual predictions.
I think that it is a little annoying that I have seen on a number of forums Gann followers pumping Gann up, showing hindsite trades but not putting the system on the line by making trading live.
MIT
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 11:10 AM
I can not agree more.
The people that study Gann in depth are very secretive.
It takes a considerable amount of Time and Money to start to understand many of Gann's trading tools.
The majority of Gann people I know just go quietly about their business.
The people that study Gann in depth are very secretive.
It takes a considerable amount of Time and Money to start to understand many of Gann's trading tools.
The majority of Gann people I know just go quietly about their business.
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 03:46 PM
Often a little Knowledge is a dangerous thing.
People tell me Gann doesn't work.
That is fine..what they are saying is that it doesn't work for them.
A lot of information I see on the internet is incorrect.
Please be very careful of free info. :2twocents
People tell me Gann doesn't work.
That is fine..what they are saying is that it doesn't work for them.
A lot of information I see on the internet is incorrect.
Please be very careful of free info. :2twocents
Knobby22
12th-July-2005, 05:00 PM
If it works, show us in realtime.
In my experience, in referance to the secretness of Gann traders, the reason traders are secretive is that they are losing money.
In my experience, in referance to the secretness of Gann traders, the reason traders are secretive is that they are losing money.
Knobby22
12th-July-2005, 05:13 PM
Found a supporter -
http://www.astroadvisor.com/astrology-article3-02.html
http://www.astroadvisor.com/astrology-article3-02.html
RichKid
12th-July-2005, 05:31 PM
Found a supporter -
http://www.astroadvisor.com/astrology-article3-02.html
ROTFL!!
Yep, have to agree, if they've got the goods they should either show it or stop talking about it in such glowing terms without showing or sharing anything of substance. Proof is better than an idle boast.
http://www.astroadvisor.com/astrology-article3-02.html
ROTFL!!
Yep, have to agree, if they've got the goods they should either show it or stop talking about it in such glowing terms without showing or sharing anything of substance. Proof is better than an idle boast.
Milk Man
12th-July-2005, 05:38 PM
Found a supporter -
http://www.astroadvisor.com/astrology-article3-02.html
Traders Stars:
Aries- today you will lose money
Pisces- today you will lose money
Taurus- today you will lose money
etc.
http://www.astroadvisor.com/astrology-article3-02.html
Traders Stars:
Aries- today you will lose money
Pisces- today you will lose money
Taurus- today you will lose money
etc.
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 06:02 PM
Don't you just love some of these websites?
We just provide a daily chart showing Support/Resistance levels and also possible turning points for markets, mainly the Share Price Index (SPI).
I have found that if you specialize in one area and really get to know one market,firstly it becomes easier to trade and secondly people will pay you for your knowledge.
We just provide a daily chart showing Support/Resistance levels and also possible turning points for markets, mainly the Share Price Index (SPI).
I have found that if you specialize in one area and really get to know one market,firstly it becomes easier to trade and secondly people will pay you for your knowledge.
mit
12th-July-2005, 06:12 PM
I originally replied as I wanted to keep an open mind.
Learning to trade is not hard if you are reasonably numerate. It is our psychology that lets us down when we are starting out.
If learning to trade Gann takes years and a lot of money then the returns must exceed most trading systems by a great deal otherwise why would you bother.
To quote the Australian Skeptics "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". Almost all trading styles are traded live somewhere. One guy who only trades fib retracements trades live on FXCM. I have seen a lot of Elliot traders putting up charts here and in ReefCap with forecasts of movement.
Learning to trade is not hard if you are reasonably numerate. It is our psychology that lets us down when we are starting out.
If learning to trade Gann takes years and a lot of money then the returns must exceed most trading systems by a great deal otherwise why would you bother.
To quote the Australian Skeptics "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". Almost all trading styles are traded live somewhere. One guy who only trades fib retracements trades live on FXCM. I have seen a lot of Elliot traders putting up charts here and in ReefCap with forecasts of movement.
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 06:22 PM
One of our traders (we got well known as the GannClan) called many Major turning points for the SPI on Reefcap. He also called many trades off the open with considerable success. The threads got deleted and he was banned from posting. We do not know why. We have copies of the threads.
tech/a
12th-July-2005, 06:33 PM
You were banned because (personal name deleted) found you posting under various names.
In the end you were talking to yourself and patting yourself on your own back.
In the end you were talking to yourself and patting yourself on your own back.
RichKid
12th-July-2005, 06:35 PM
One of our traders (we got well known as the GannClan) called many Major turning points for the SPI on Reefcap. He also called many trades off the open with considerable success. The threads got deleted and he was banned from posting. We do not know why. We have copies of the threads.
Battman,
I have no knowledge of those reefcap threads you mention but you are more than welcome to post your predictions and explanations here (start a new thread in the Derivatives forum if it's on the SPI), as long as you have the usual disclaimer about it not being financial advice or the like.
In case you are considering posting those old threads you mentioned I don't think it is necessary atm. Better to deal with future events than to dredge up those old threads. When you post live here no one can say you did it in hindsight as the date stamps can't be changed without Joe knowing.
Most of us are skeptical and believe it's not as accurate or as reliable as people say; money and risk mgmt are the key imho (even Safety in the Market stresses that).
So, time for some action Battman, I'm sure you can't wait to show us some Gann magic. Over to you.
Battman,
I have no knowledge of those reefcap threads you mention but you are more than welcome to post your predictions and explanations here (start a new thread in the Derivatives forum if it's on the SPI), as long as you have the usual disclaimer about it not being financial advice or the like.
In case you are considering posting those old threads you mentioned I don't think it is necessary atm. Better to deal with future events than to dredge up those old threads. When you post live here no one can say you did it in hindsight as the date stamps can't be changed without Joe knowing.
Most of us are skeptical and believe it's not as accurate or as reliable as people say; money and risk mgmt are the key imho (even Safety in the Market stresses that).
So, time for some action Battman, I'm sure you can't wait to show us some Gann magic. Over to you.
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 06:38 PM
It is not true.
I personally have never sent you an email.
Not even one, and you have never sent me one either.
I have never sent anyone an abusive one in my life.
You have my word.
I personally have never sent you an email.
Not even one, and you have never sent me one either.
I have never sent anyone an abusive one in my life.
You have my word.
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 06:45 PM
Tech/a
You have edited your post.
You accused me of sending you an abusive email.
I have never.
You have edited your post.
You accused me of sending you an abusive email.
I have never.
tech/a
12th-July-2005, 06:48 PM
Beat me to it.
I decided to delete the email bit as I wasnt keen to start the rubbish flowing again.
I know different (name edited out by moderator- against code of conduct) but if you wish to leave it at that so be it.
I guess now you know the reason---not that (personal name deleted) kept you in the dark.
Clever how you avoided that truth to defend yourself.
Anyway perhaps youve turned a new leaf?
I decided to delete the email bit as I wasnt keen to start the rubbish flowing again.
I know different (name edited out by moderator- against code of conduct) but if you wish to leave it at that so be it.
I guess now you know the reason---not that (personal name deleted) kept you in the dark.
Clever how you avoided that truth to defend yourself.
Anyway perhaps youve turned a new leaf?
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 06:52 PM
Beat me to it.
I decided to delete the email bit as I wasnt keen to start the rubbish flowing again.
I know different ..... but if you wish to leave it at that so be it.
I guess now you know the reason---not that (personal name deleted) kept you in the dark.
Clever how you avoided that truth to defend yourself.
Anyway perhaps youve turned a new leaf?
Please can you show me the email.
It is not from me.
I give you my word.
I decided to delete the email bit as I wasnt keen to start the rubbish flowing again.
I know different ..... but if you wish to leave it at that so be it.
I guess now you know the reason---not that (personal name deleted) kept you in the dark.
Clever how you avoided that truth to defend yourself.
Anyway perhaps youve turned a new leaf?
Please can you show me the email.
It is not from me.
I give you my word.
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 06:56 PM
(name edited out by moderator- against code of conduct),
This needs to be cleared up with you and (personal name deleted) .
I have never sent an abusive email in my life.
This needs to be cleared up with you and (personal name deleted) .
I have never sent an abusive email in my life.
RichKid
12th-July-2005, 07:14 PM
Okay gents, enough of that. Back to the topic and maybe you two can sort out your misunderstandings over a nice cup of tea somewhere else.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Mofra
12th-July-2005, 07:17 PM
Mofra,
I don't think using astrology is much like other trading systems
Sorry MIT you lost me - I never mentioned astrology and in the Gann material I've read (45 Years on Wall St, David E Bowden stuff etc) astrology doesn't appear either. Like most highly mechanical systems, I have found most of his more general theories to be based around finding trends and support/resistance levels (I don't try to pick exact highs or lows - too difficult).
Regardless of the journey, almost every system I have seen or heard about have these two core elements in mind for the destination.
ps. Hope this gets the thread a little more back on track - with all due respect Battman and tech/a I believe most lurking or contributing care more about what you say here than what has happened on past sites.
I don't think using astrology is much like other trading systems
Sorry MIT you lost me - I never mentioned astrology and in the Gann material I've read (45 Years on Wall St, David E Bowden stuff etc) astrology doesn't appear either. Like most highly mechanical systems, I have found most of his more general theories to be based around finding trends and support/resistance levels (I don't try to pick exact highs or lows - too difficult).
Regardless of the journey, almost every system I have seen or heard about have these two core elements in mind for the destination.
ps. Hope this gets the thread a little more back on track - with all due respect Battman and tech/a I believe most lurking or contributing care more about what you say here than what has happened on past sites.
Mofra
12th-July-2005, 07:18 PM
Looks like Richkid just beat me to it :o
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 07:20 PM
You are so right RichKid / Mofra.
I noticed Tech/a has left the website.
The accusation is very very wrong.
I will start a thread in the Derivative forum section.
Thank you RichKid.
I noticed Tech/a has left the website.
The accusation is very very wrong.
I will start a thread in the Derivative forum section.
Thank you RichKid.
RichKid
12th-July-2005, 07:28 PM
Tech & Battman,
Okay, thanks to both of you for stopping that, it's not worth the stress for any of us (including both of you). Let's avoid raising extraneous issues in future please, especially those related to your last exchange.
Okay, thanks to both of you for stopping that, it's not worth the stress for any of us (including both of you). Let's avoid raising extraneous issues in future please, especially those related to your last exchange.
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 07:56 PM
Hopefully tech/a will use his ignore button on me.
Although I doubt it very much.
We will see.
Although I doubt it very much.
We will see.
mit
12th-July-2005, 08:00 PM
Mofra,
I realised that you didn't. After your comments I had a look at google at some Gann sites, just in case I was misinformed. A lot of the sites mention Astrology. An example is one that I think is Australian www.schoolofgann.com that looked fairly professional and it had astrology books on it's reading list. It also alludes to the "mysteries" that require a lot of hardwork (and money) to achieve.
I looked up Bowden. He makes 100% per month it says in his bio!
I also looked up the book you mentioned I found it on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0939093138/ref=pd_sxp_f/103-5826664-3277443?v=glance&s=books
One of the reviews talks about taking Gann on two levels as a bunch of indicators for swing trading or deeper "arcana".
MIT
I realised that you didn't. After your comments I had a look at google at some Gann sites, just in case I was misinformed. A lot of the sites mention Astrology. An example is one that I think is Australian www.schoolofgann.com that looked fairly professional and it had astrology books on it's reading list. It also alludes to the "mysteries" that require a lot of hardwork (and money) to achieve.
I looked up Bowden. He makes 100% per month it says in his bio!
I also looked up the book you mentioned I found it on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0939093138/ref=pd_sxp_f/103-5826664-3277443?v=glance&s=books
One of the reviews talks about taking Gann on two levels as a bunch of indicators for swing trading or deeper "arcana".
MIT
RichKid
12th-July-2005, 08:01 PM
Hopefully tech/a will use his ignore button on me.
Although I doubt it very much.
We will see.
Battman,
Tech is aware of that feature, you can use it too. Now no more on that issue please. If you don't have anything more to post on Gann's rules let me know via pm and I'll consider closing this thread. For admin queries you can pm me or Joe.
You need not post a reply to this msg, I'd like to end it right now. Please continue with the Gann stuff if you are so inclined.
Thanks in advance!
Although I doubt it very much.
We will see.
Battman,
Tech is aware of that feature, you can use it too. Now no more on that issue please. If you don't have anything more to post on Gann's rules let me know via pm and I'll consider closing this thread. For admin queries you can pm me or Joe.
You need not post a reply to this msg, I'd like to end it right now. Please continue with the Gann stuff if you are so inclined.
Thanks in advance!
Battman64
12th-July-2005, 08:12 PM
Gann had a serious preference for trading Commodities.
He stated many times:
"You Can Make More Profits Trading in Commodities Than Stocks"....
He gave many reasons why.....
He stated many times:
"You Can Make More Profits Trading in Commodities Than Stocks"....
He gave many reasons why.....
Battman64
13th-July-2005, 09:24 AM
1. Commodities follow a seasonal trend and are much easier to forecast.
They move with supply and demand.
They move with supply and demand.
kaveman
13th-July-2005, 10:16 AM
and that is the secret of gann techniques for identifying future turning points
The chart MUST be cyclic
The chart MUST be cyclic
Battman64
13th-July-2005, 11:01 AM
The Share Price Index also has a seasonal trend.
kaveman
13th-July-2005, 12:37 PM
Where can I find this Share Price Index?
Battman64
13th-July-2005, 12:47 PM
Sydney Futures Exchange
www.sfe.com.au
www.sfe.com.au
Battman64
13th-July-2005, 06:05 PM
Also see "Trading the SPI"
I have linked to Futuresource.com
20 mins delayed data on the SPI.
I have linked to Futuresource.com
20 mins delayed data on the SPI.
RichKid
14th-July-2005, 01:50 PM
and that is the secret of gann techniques for identifying future turning points
The chart MUST be cyclic
That seems a very good point, I know of people who follow our bluechip resources stocks and buy at the bottom of the sp cycle to make money on the upswing. You also get smaller cycles within the multi-year ones too. As with all things in TA a cycle is another pattern we can use imo. Commodities are safest in that sense as unlike a stock it's almost impossible that copper or OJ will be worth $0 (ie you can look for a bottom and multi year support)- the problem is you account being wiped out due to the leverage if you don't watch the downside but that applies to anything I guess.
The chart MUST be cyclic
That seems a very good point, I know of people who follow our bluechip resources stocks and buy at the bottom of the sp cycle to make money on the upswing. You also get smaller cycles within the multi-year ones too. As with all things in TA a cycle is another pattern we can use imo. Commodities are safest in that sense as unlike a stock it's almost impossible that copper or OJ will be worth $0 (ie you can look for a bottom and multi year support)- the problem is you account being wiped out due to the leverage if you don't watch the downside but that applies to anything I guess.
kaveman
14th-July-2005, 03:49 PM
I made this poiint as I had investigated using gann at one time and reading some books it appeared he traded mostly commodities wihch are basically cyclical as the crops are based entirely on the seasons. A good/bad crop dependant on the suitability of weather in the seasons.
RichKid
14th-July-2005, 03:53 PM
I made this poiint as I had investigated using gann at one time and reading some books it appeared he traded mostly commodities wihch are basically cyclical as the crops are based entirely on the seasons. A good/bad crop dependant on the suitability of weather in the seasons.
Reading some of the commodity books I've found that some of these guys who trade commodities often know stacks about agriculture, weather and the effect a bad sardine(?) catch in Sth America will have on the price of soy beans. They do use charting but not in isolation as fundamentals can be quite powerful backup tools. Just my opinion.
The OJ market always reminds me of the Eddie Murphy movie- Trading Places!
Reading some of the commodity books I've found that some of these guys who trade commodities often know stacks about agriculture, weather and the effect a bad sardine(?) catch in Sth America will have on the price of soy beans. They do use charting but not in isolation as fundamentals can be quite powerful backup tools. Just my opinion.
The OJ market always reminds me of the Eddie Murphy movie- Trading Places!
Battman64
14th-July-2005, 07:49 PM
"Stocks go into receivers' hands and go out of business.
Commodities go on forever.
Crops are planted and harvested each year."
WD Gann
Commodities go on forever.
Crops are planted and harvested each year."
WD Gann
Milk Man
15th-July-2005, 08:48 AM
Reading some of the commodity books I've found that some of these guys who trade commodities often know stacks about agriculture, weather and the effect a bad sardine(?) catch in Sth America will have on the price of soy beans.
It has to with El Nino/ La Nina. Maybe youve heard of it?
If theres a cold current running up the west coast of South America then theres more plankton:fish:whales in it (saw it on a blue-whale doco).
The effect on the other side of the Pacific is warmer waters off the East coast of Australia therefore better rainfall therefore better crops (mostly- rain at the wrong time can ruin certain crops!) Sometimes it pays to be a farmer- maybe i'll have a look at futures! :rolleyes:
I never actually considered the fish catch before- we usually go by the Southern oscillation index (SOI) which gives a fair idea of the El Nino (bad) and La Nina (good) cycles.
It has to with El Nino/ La Nina. Maybe youve heard of it?
If theres a cold current running up the west coast of South America then theres more plankton:fish:whales in it (saw it on a blue-whale doco).
The effect on the other side of the Pacific is warmer waters off the East coast of Australia therefore better rainfall therefore better crops (mostly- rain at the wrong time can ruin certain crops!) Sometimes it pays to be a farmer- maybe i'll have a look at futures! :rolleyes:
I never actually considered the fish catch before- we usually go by the Southern oscillation index (SOI) which gives a fair idea of the El Nino (bad) and La Nina (good) cycles.
RichKid
15th-July-2005, 01:46 PM
It has to with El Nino/ La Nina. Maybe youve heard of it?
If theres a cold current running up the west coast of South America then theres more plankton:fish:whales in it (saw it on a blue-whale doco).
The effect on the other side of the Pacific is warmer waters off the East coast of Australia therefore better rainfall therefore better crops (mostly- rain at the wrong time can ruin certain crops!) Sometimes it pays to be a farmer- maybe i'll have a look at futures! :rolleyes:
I never actually considered the fish catch before- we usually go by the Southern oscillation index (SOI) which gives a fair idea of the El Nino (bad) and La Nina (good) cycles.
A lot to learn! Yes, have heard of El Nino's effects, the fish catch links up with something else to affect commodities- it's all connected! It was in Stanley Kroll's book on Futures Trading, excellent read imo.
If theres a cold current running up the west coast of South America then theres more plankton:fish:whales in it (saw it on a blue-whale doco).
The effect on the other side of the Pacific is warmer waters off the East coast of Australia therefore better rainfall therefore better crops (mostly- rain at the wrong time can ruin certain crops!) Sometimes it pays to be a farmer- maybe i'll have a look at futures! :rolleyes:
I never actually considered the fish catch before- we usually go by the Southern oscillation index (SOI) which gives a fair idea of the El Nino (bad) and La Nina (good) cycles.
A lot to learn! Yes, have heard of El Nino's effects, the fish catch links up with something else to affect commodities- it's all connected! It was in Stanley Kroll's book on Futures Trading, excellent read imo.
mit
15th-July-2005, 01:52 PM
Trader Vic uses the same example in his book. Another excellent read.
MIT
MIT
Milk Man
15th-July-2005, 05:03 PM
Yeah there's another strange occurence that makes the price of milk go up-
Pigs flying backwards through the sky! :D
Pigs flying backwards through the sky! :D
Battman64
16th-July-2005, 01:24 PM
"There is always a demand by consumers for commodities,
which is not the case with stocks" WD Gann
which is not the case with stocks" WD Gann
Battman64
18th-July-2005, 04:34 PM
"You can forecast tops and bottoms of commodities with greater certainty than of stocks." WD Gann
TjamesX
27th-July-2005, 11:17 PM
Now I don't know much about his teachings, but thats just it .... I tried to find out and I couldn't find anything meanigful or some sort of wrap up of what they were.
In summary what are they!!!??
Why are they always surrounded in mystery?
Is it more like a cult/religion? :D
Have I opened a can of worms?
:sly: :sly: :sly:
In summary what are they!!!??
Why are they always surrounded in mystery?
Is it more like a cult/religion? :D
Have I opened a can of worms?
:sly: :sly: :sly:
Battman64
27th-July-2005, 11:22 PM
You probably have Tj :)
I will refrain from comment until others have their say.
I will refrain from comment until others have their say.
yogi-in-oz
22nd-March-2006, 12:15 PM
:)
Hi folks,
March equinox marks the start of the northern
spring and southern autumn, as well as the
start of a New Year for Gann traders ..... :)
happy new year, gannsters
yogi
:)
Hi folks,
March equinox marks the start of the northern
spring and southern autumn, as well as the
start of a New Year for Gann traders ..... :)
happy new year, gannsters
yogi
:)
Battman64
22nd-March-2006, 01:13 PM
:)
Hi folks,
March equinox marks the start of the northern
spring and southern autumn, as well as the
start of a New Year for Gann traders ..... :)
happy new year, gannsters
yogi
:)
Thank you yogi,
"Happy New Year"
Hi folks,
March equinox marks the start of the northern
spring and southern autumn, as well as the
start of a New Year for Gann traders ..... :)
happy new year, gannsters
yogi
:)
Thank you yogi,
"Happy New Year"
Bronte
22nd-March-2006, 04:32 PM
Thank you yogi,
"Happy New Year"
Thank you :)
"Happy New Year"
Thank you :)
Bronte
22nd-March-2006, 09:31 PM
I've heard the same. I felt a bit the same about Elliot waves but all of the Elliot fans who have posted live calls have convinced me to keep an open mind and maybe buy a book on it one day. I haven't seen any live Gann calls as of yet. (Hint, Hint Battman64!)
MIT
You have now Mr MIT :)
MIT
You have now Mr MIT :)
Bronte
22nd-March-2006, 09:33 PM
TWENTY-FOUR NEVER-FAILING RULES By W D GANN
1. Amount of capital to use: Divide your capital into 10 equal parts and never risk more than one-tenth of your capital in any one trade.
2. Use stop loss orders. Always protect a trade when you make it with a stop loss order 3 to 5 points away.
3. Never overtrade. This would be violating your capital rule.
4. Never let a profit run into a loss. After you have made a profit or 3 points or more, raise your stop loss order so that you will have no loss of capital.
5. Do not buck the trend. Never buy or sell if you are not sure of the trend according to your charts.
6. When in doubt, get out, and don’t get in when in doubt.
7. Trade only in active stocks. Keep out of slow, dead ones.
8. Equal distribution of risk. Trade in 4 or 5 stocks, if possible. Avoid tying up all your capital in any one stock.
9. Never limit your orders or fix a buying or selling price. Trade at the market.
10. Don’t close your trades without good reason. Follow up with a stop loss order to protect your profits.
11. Accumulate a surplus. After your have made a series of successful trades, put some money into surplus account to be used only in emergency or times of panic.
12. Never buy just to get a dividend.
13. Never average a loss. This is one of the worst decisions a trader can make.
14. Never get out of the market just because you have lost patience or get into the market just because you are anxious from waiting.
15. Avoid taking small profits and big losses.
16. Never cancel a stop loss order after you have placed it at the time you make a trade.
17. Avoid getting in and out of the market too often.
18. Be just as willing to sell short as you are to buy. Let your object be to keep with the trend and make money.
19. Never buy just because the price of a stock is low or sell short just because the price is high.
20. Be careful about pyramiding at the wrong time. Wait until the stock is very active and has crossed resistance levels before buying more.
21. Select the stocks with small volume of shares outstanding to pyramid on the buying side and the ones with the largest volume of stock outstanding to sell short.
22. Never hedge. If you are long one stock and it starts to go down, do not sell another stock short to hedge it. Get out at the market; take your loss and wait for another opportunity.
23. Never change your position in the market without good reason. When you make a trade, let it be for some good reason or according to some definite plan; then do not get out without a definite indication of a change in trend.
24. Avoid increasing your trading after a long period of success or a period of profitable trades.
__________________
Thanks Mofra for typing this in another thread.
For Freddo and onemore :)
1. Amount of capital to use: Divide your capital into 10 equal parts and never risk more than one-tenth of your capital in any one trade.
2. Use stop loss orders. Always protect a trade when you make it with a stop loss order 3 to 5 points away.
3. Never overtrade. This would be violating your capital rule.
4. Never let a profit run into a loss. After you have made a profit or 3 points or more, raise your stop loss order so that you will have no loss of capital.
5. Do not buck the trend. Never buy or sell if you are not sure of the trend according to your charts.
6. When in doubt, get out, and don’t get in when in doubt.
7. Trade only in active stocks. Keep out of slow, dead ones.
8. Equal distribution of risk. Trade in 4 or 5 stocks, if possible. Avoid tying up all your capital in any one stock.
9. Never limit your orders or fix a buying or selling price. Trade at the market.
10. Don’t close your trades without good reason. Follow up with a stop loss order to protect your profits.
11. Accumulate a surplus. After your have made a series of successful trades, put some money into surplus account to be used only in emergency or times of panic.
12. Never buy just to get a dividend.
13. Never average a loss. This is one of the worst decisions a trader can make.
14. Never get out of the market just because you have lost patience or get into the market just because you are anxious from waiting.
15. Avoid taking small profits and big losses.
16. Never cancel a stop loss order after you have placed it at the time you make a trade.
17. Avoid getting in and out of the market too often.
18. Be just as willing to sell short as you are to buy. Let your object be to keep with the trend and make money.
19. Never buy just because the price of a stock is low or sell short just because the price is high.
20. Be careful about pyramiding at the wrong time. Wait until the stock is very active and has crossed resistance levels before buying more.
21. Select the stocks with small volume of shares outstanding to pyramid on the buying side and the ones with the largest volume of stock outstanding to sell short.
22. Never hedge. If you are long one stock and it starts to go down, do not sell another stock short to hedge it. Get out at the market; take your loss and wait for another opportunity.
23. Never change your position in the market without good reason. When you make a trade, let it be for some good reason or according to some definite plan; then do not get out without a definite indication of a change in trend.
24. Avoid increasing your trading after a long period of success or a period of profitable trades.
__________________
Thanks Mofra for typing this in another thread.
For Freddo and onemore :)
Freddo
22nd-March-2006, 10:49 PM
Bronte,
Thanks for the 24 tips, I know those.
I was after a little more on how you calculate support and resistance
levels... Please :D
I did well on the SPI today, I am thinking of changing 22nd March to my birthday.
Regards
Freddo
Thanks for the 24 tips, I know those.
I was after a little more on how you calculate support and resistance
levels... Please :D
I did well on the SPI today, I am thinking of changing 22nd March to my birthday.
Regards
Freddo
onemore
23rd-March-2006, 06:34 PM
Bronte
They are very good risk management rules.But im like Freddo i want to learn more about these Gann SUP/RES levels you use on the Spi.
You said there is a lot of bull.... out there on Gann so how does one learn the correct way?
Like i said before you guys/girls dont give out much detail about your Gann trades on the Spi thread.You use it mainly as a journal for your trades which is ok but not very helpful for us novices .
Thanks ...onemore
They are very good risk management rules.But im like Freddo i want to learn more about these Gann SUP/RES levels you use on the Spi.
You said there is a lot of bull.... out there on Gann so how does one learn the correct way?
Like i said before you guys/girls dont give out much detail about your Gann trades on the Spi thread.You use it mainly as a journal for your trades which is ok but not very helpful for us novices .
Thanks ...onemore
yogi-in-oz
23rd-March-2006, 08:16 PM
:)
Happy New Year Gannsters,
Just for the record ... would like to see
XJO drop like a stone, from 5386 ..... :)
-----
Astrostuff:
When we count off days of a previous rally
or decline, we are really measuring a TIME
cycle, which may (or may not) repeat itself,
in the marketplace .....
..... counting days also relates to other,
"Big Picture" stuff, like world events.
Sometimes, we see events fall on days, that
have a special significance to us, like today,
the March equinox and change of season.
This time last year, we saw the drama
unfold, as the Pope missed his first Easter
service in 26 years .... he died, in the next
week.
That event was harmonically tied to the
11 September 2001 attacks on USA.
Such harmonics exist over time, between
many major events and 2006 is no
different, with some major harmonics
relating to past events, in the coming
months.
Such time cycles allow us to project time
forward to key dates, where we may also
witness further significant events.
As in the example above, the two events
need not be related in any way, but the
TIMING of such events can sometimes, be
accurately forecast.
For example, from the Bali bombing in 2002,
we are approaching a period, where we will
see 3 major harmonics, relating to that
time frame:
25032006 ... also 1st anniversary of Pope's death
and 3rd anniversary of Iraq invasion.
24052006 ...
08062006 ... also 2nd anniversary - Venus Transit
and Reagan's death.
------
Astrologically 2006 is also a carbon copy of
1987, with an eclipse of the Sun falling on
the September 2006 equinox.
While market highs were made in August
1987, strength in the market ebbed, until
"Black Monday" - 19101987, then a 500
point drop in one day.
This year, we also have another astroevent,
a stellium, around 07112006, which is also
harmonically related to the market lows of
13032003 ... :)
At this time, it would not be surprising to
see a major natural event, such as an
earthquake, hurricane or tsunami, around
the west coast of USA ..... though, it could
just as easily be a man-made blunder ...!~!
happy days
yogi
:)
=====
Happy New Year Gannsters,
Just for the record ... would like to see
XJO drop like a stone, from 5386 ..... :)
-----
Astrostuff:
When we count off days of a previous rally
or decline, we are really measuring a TIME
cycle, which may (or may not) repeat itself,
in the marketplace .....
..... counting days also relates to other,
"Big Picture" stuff, like world events.
Sometimes, we see events fall on days, that
have a special significance to us, like today,
the March equinox and change of season.
This time last year, we saw the drama
unfold, as the Pope missed his first Easter
service in 26 years .... he died, in the next
week.
That event was harmonically tied to the
11 September 2001 attacks on USA.
Such harmonics exist over time, between
many major events and 2006 is no
different, with some major harmonics
relating to past events, in the coming
months.
Such time cycles allow us to project time
forward to key dates, where we may also
witness further significant events.
As in the example above, the two events
need not be related in any way, but the
TIMING of such events can sometimes, be
accurately forecast.
For example, from the Bali bombing in 2002,
we are approaching a period, where we will
see 3 major harmonics, relating to that
time frame:
25032006 ... also 1st anniversary of Pope's death
and 3rd anniversary of Iraq invasion.
24052006 ...
08062006 ... also 2nd anniversary - Venus Transit
and Reagan's death.
------
Astrologically 2006 is also a carbon copy of
1987, with an eclipse of the Sun falling on
the September 2006 equinox.
While market highs were made in August
1987, strength in the market ebbed, until
"Black Monday" - 19101987, then a 500
point drop in one day.
This year, we also have another astroevent,
a stellium, around 07112006, which is also
harmonically related to the market lows of
13032003 ... :)
At this time, it would not be surprising to
see a major natural event, such as an
earthquake, hurricane or tsunami, around
the west coast of USA ..... though, it could
just as easily be a man-made blunder ...!~!
happy days
yogi
:)
=====
tech/a
23rd-March-2006, 08:26 PM
Bronte
They are very good risk management rules.But im like Freddo i want to learn more about these Gann SUP/RES levels you use on the Spi.
You said there is a lot of bull.... out there on Gann so how does one learn the correct way?
Like i said before you guys/girls dont give out much detail about your Gann trades on the Spi thread.You use it mainly as a journal for your trades which is ok but not very helpful for us novices .
Thanks ...onemore
Onemore
Seems all involved in Gann enjoy the fathering of mystery.
Its only for the chosen few and understanding Gann Support/Resistance has cost these people $1000s in time effort and in some cases courses.
To ask for a simple explaination is way beyond normal expectation.
Youll find next weeks lotto results easier to extract---Sorry I stand corrected---Last weeks lottery results---much more accurate.
At this time, it would not be surprising to
see a major natural event, such as an
earthquake, hurricane or tsunami, around
the west coast of USA ..... though, it could
just as easily be a man-made blunder ...!~!
Hmm would like to see that as Hurricane season is July/October.
There is one brewing of the west coast of Aust---nice call!
If you look hard enough youll find correlation in anything you like.
They are very good risk management rules.But im like Freddo i want to learn more about these Gann SUP/RES levels you use on the Spi.
You said there is a lot of bull.... out there on Gann so how does one learn the correct way?
Like i said before you guys/girls dont give out much detail about your Gann trades on the Spi thread.You use it mainly as a journal for your trades which is ok but not very helpful for us novices .
Thanks ...onemore
Onemore
Seems all involved in Gann enjoy the fathering of mystery.
Its only for the chosen few and understanding Gann Support/Resistance has cost these people $1000s in time effort and in some cases courses.
To ask for a simple explaination is way beyond normal expectation.
Youll find next weeks lotto results easier to extract---Sorry I stand corrected---Last weeks lottery results---much more accurate.
At this time, it would not be surprising to
see a major natural event, such as an
earthquake, hurricane or tsunami, around
the west coast of USA ..... though, it could
just as easily be a man-made blunder ...!~!
Hmm would like to see that as Hurricane season is July/October.
There is one brewing of the west coast of Aust---nice call!
If you look hard enough youll find correlation in anything you like.
yogi-in-oz
23rd-March-2006, 10:22 PM
:)
Tech/a,
Yes, we have all heard it all before from you and
repeatedly, we have proven you wrong, many times .....
..... let's just agree, to stay out of each other's threads.
Reason being, this trader may not be as tolerant with
you and your ego, as others have been on this forum.
byeee
yogi
:)
Tech/a,
Yes, we have all heard it all before from you and
repeatedly, we have proven you wrong, many times .....
..... let's just agree, to stay out of each other's threads.
Reason being, this trader may not be as tolerant with
you and your ego, as others have been on this forum.
byeee
yogi
:)
It's Snake Pliskin
24th-March-2006, 02:05 AM
Yogi,
How many moons does Mars have?
How many moons does Earth have?
Would trading be different on these two very different planets if they were both inhabited alike, but with different environments?
Regards
Snake
How many moons does Mars have?
How many moons does Earth have?
Would trading be different on these two very different planets if they were both inhabited alike, but with different environments?
Regards
Snake
Bobby
24th-March-2006, 02:49 AM
:)
Tech/a,
Yes, we have all heard it all before from you and
repeatedly, we have proven you wrong, many times .....
..... let's just agree, to stay out of each other's threads.
Reason being, this trader may not be as tolerant with
you and your ego, as others have been on this forum.
byeee
yogi
:)
Hey yogi,
How have you & the we's proven Tech wrong ?.
Bob.
Tech/a,
Yes, we have all heard it all before from you and
repeatedly, we have proven you wrong, many times .....
..... let's just agree, to stay out of each other's threads.
Reason being, this trader may not be as tolerant with
you and your ego, as others have been on this forum.
byeee
yogi
:)
Hey yogi,
How have you & the we's proven Tech wrong ?.
Bob.
tech/a
24th-March-2006, 03:59 AM
To ask for a simple explaination is way beyond normal expectation.
Reason being, this trader may not be as tolerant with
you and your ego, as others have been on this forum.
Whats this ego rubbish again? You've been asked by others to help out in their education as usual nothing comes back,you might as well be having your tarots read!
Your lack of content is shown in your personal attack-----AGAIN.
If my personal mailbox gets filled up with abusive rubbish again I WILL be sure that the law comes down on the instigators as hard as it possibly can.
Reason being, this trader may not be as tolerant with
you and your ego, as others have been on this forum.
Whats this ego rubbish again? You've been asked by others to help out in their education as usual nothing comes back,you might as well be having your tarots read!
Your lack of content is shown in your personal attack-----AGAIN.
If my personal mailbox gets filled up with abusive rubbish again I WILL be sure that the law comes down on the instigators as hard as it possibly can.
imaginator
29th-March-2006, 11:48 PM
why does he say never get in and out of the market too often?
What I have been doing since starting to trade in 2004, is to buy when the trend starts to change to up, and then sell when there is a significant drop.
Because I am using margin lending, I always watch my trade, if i make a profit, i will sell it to stop paying too much interest on the loan.
Usually in 2 weeks I will make about $700 before tax. I know if we dont hold a stock for more than 1 year the tax is higher, so now i am putting some money aside to buy some stocks that are consistent in performance, eg BIL and RIN, and go for long term holding (without a loan).
What I have been doing since starting to trade in 2004, is to buy when the trend starts to change to up, and then sell when there is a significant drop.
Because I am using margin lending, I always watch my trade, if i make a profit, i will sell it to stop paying too much interest on the loan.
Usually in 2 weeks I will make about $700 before tax. I know if we dont hold a stock for more than 1 year the tax is higher, so now i am putting some money aside to buy some stocks that are consistent in performance, eg BIL and RIN, and go for long term holding (without a loan).
bunyip
30th-March-2006, 03:25 AM
QUOTE
"I looked up Bowden. He makes 100% per month it says in his bio!"
MIT
.................................................. .................................................. ..
If Bowden claims he makes 100% a month then I would suggest his claims should be taken with a grain of salt.
I know someone who challenged Bowden to show his trading statements....he declined to do so.
Bowden is a wealthy man.......why wouldn't he be - he spent many years running Gann courses and charging people thousands of dollars a day to attend.
Bowden was once featured on a TV show where it was stated that he made his money from commodities. No mention was made of the millions of dollars he made from selling Gann courses.
Bowden's newspaper ads boldly stated 'Learn from the best in the world'.
But when he was challenged to a trading contest by a high profile trader, for the purpose of proving his 'best in the world' claim, Bowden didn't respond.
My dentist spent 25 grand on Bowden's courses, but lost money attempting to trade the methodology he was taught, as did at least a dozen other people I've spoken to.
When he was employed by Bowden, the late Neil Costa gave a presentation at an ATAA meeting during which he claimed the All Ords would go to such and such a level in that particular year, followed by 'the mother of all crashes' before years end. Presumably Costa was using Gann methodology (learnt from Bowden) to make these forecasts.
The 'mother of all crashes' didn't occur, and the All Ords fell more than 700 points short of his forecast.
Don't be fooled by big claims from gurus.
Bunyip
"I looked up Bowden. He makes 100% per month it says in his bio!"
MIT
.................................................. .................................................. ..
If Bowden claims he makes 100% a month then I would suggest his claims should be taken with a grain of salt.
I know someone who challenged Bowden to show his trading statements....he declined to do so.
Bowden is a wealthy man.......why wouldn't he be - he spent many years running Gann courses and charging people thousands of dollars a day to attend.
Bowden was once featured on a TV show where it was stated that he made his money from commodities. No mention was made of the millions of dollars he made from selling Gann courses.
Bowden's newspaper ads boldly stated 'Learn from the best in the world'.
But when he was challenged to a trading contest by a high profile trader, for the purpose of proving his 'best in the world' claim, Bowden didn't respond.
My dentist spent 25 grand on Bowden's courses, but lost money attempting to trade the methodology he was taught, as did at least a dozen other people I've spoken to.
When he was employed by Bowden, the late Neil Costa gave a presentation at an ATAA meeting during which he claimed the All Ords would go to such and such a level in that particular year, followed by 'the mother of all crashes' before years end. Presumably Costa was using Gann methodology (learnt from Bowden) to make these forecasts.
The 'mother of all crashes' didn't occur, and the All Ords fell more than 700 points short of his forecast.
Don't be fooled by big claims from gurus.
Bunyip
tech/a
30th-March-2006, 06:32 AM
QUOTE
"I looked up Bowden. He makes 100% per month it says in his bio!"
MIT
.................................................. .................................................. ..
If Bowden claims he makes 100% a month then I would suggest his claims should be taken with a grain of salt.
I know someone who challenged Bowden to show his trading statements....he declined to do so.
Bowden is a wealthy man.......why wouldn't he be - he spent many years running Gann courses and charging people thousands of dollars a day to attend.
Bowden was once featured on a TV show where it was stated that he made his money from commodities. No mention was made of the millions of dollars he made from selling Gann courses.
Bowden's newspaper ads boldly stated 'Learn from the best in the world'.
But when he was challenged to a trading contest by a high profile trader, for the purpose of proving his 'best in the world' claim, Bowden didn't respond.
My dentist spent 25 grand on Bowden's courses, but lost money attempting to trade the methodology he was taught, as did at least a dozen other people I've spoken to.
When he was employed by Bowden, the late Neil Costa gave a presentation at an ATAA meeting during which he claimed the All Ords would go to such and such a level in that particular year, followed by 'the mother of all crashes' before years end. Presumably Costa was using Gann methodology (learnt from Bowden) to make these forecasts.
The 'mother of all crashes' didn't occur, and the All Ords fell more than 700 points short of his forecast.
Don't be fooled by big claims from gurus.
Bunyip
That was Larry williams.
He challenged him to a 1 million trade off,when he was touring and lecturing.
It was reported in the FIN reveiw.Reckon it was 5 yrs ago or so.
Anyway Bowden declined.
"I looked up Bowden. He makes 100% per month it says in his bio!"
MIT
.................................................. .................................................. ..
If Bowden claims he makes 100% a month then I would suggest his claims should be taken with a grain of salt.
I know someone who challenged Bowden to show his trading statements....he declined to do so.
Bowden is a wealthy man.......why wouldn't he be - he spent many years running Gann courses and charging people thousands of dollars a day to attend.
Bowden was once featured on a TV show where it was stated that he made his money from commodities. No mention was made of the millions of dollars he made from selling Gann courses.
Bowden's newspaper ads boldly stated 'Learn from the best in the world'.
But when he was challenged to a trading contest by a high profile trader, for the purpose of proving his 'best in the world' claim, Bowden didn't respond.
My dentist spent 25 grand on Bowden's courses, but lost money attempting to trade the methodology he was taught, as did at least a dozen other people I've spoken to.
When he was employed by Bowden, the late Neil Costa gave a presentation at an ATAA meeting during which he claimed the All Ords would go to such and such a level in that particular year, followed by 'the mother of all crashes' before years end. Presumably Costa was using Gann methodology (learnt from Bowden) to make these forecasts.
The 'mother of all crashes' didn't occur, and the All Ords fell more than 700 points short of his forecast.
Don't be fooled by big claims from gurus.
Bunyip
That was Larry williams.
He challenged him to a 1 million trade off,when he was touring and lecturing.
It was reported in the FIN reveiw.Reckon it was 5 yrs ago or so.
Anyway Bowden declined.
bunyip
30th-March-2006, 10:22 AM
Yep, it was Larry Williams who challenged Bowden.
Tell me tech/a.....why do you choose not to go short?
Bunyip
Tell me tech/a.....why do you choose not to go short?
Bunyip
tech/a
30th-March-2006, 10:42 AM
Well for one its a raging bullmarket and I'm sitting in longterm positions which are belting along.
I dont have the time to analyse possibilities for short opportunities,and I'm not trading derivatives or futures/indexes short term.
Its a valid way of trading but more like a sideline for me if I was involved in shorting.
I dont have the time to analyse possibilities for short opportunities,and I'm not trading derivatives or futures/indexes short term.
Its a valid way of trading but more like a sideline for me if I was involved in shorting.
wayneL
30th-March-2006, 11:08 AM
...and as discussed before, the distribution of returns is lognormal.
Long term trend following doesn't work so well going short....because of 0.
Long term trend following doesn't work so well going short....because of 0.
bunyip
30th-March-2006, 01:28 PM
...and as discussed before, the distribution of returns is lognormal.
Long term trend following doesn't work so well going short....because of 0.
Wayne
Could you explain in words please why you think a trend following approach isn't well suited to trading short. You mentioned this on another thread and included a couple of links to support your case, but I couldn't make any sense of the info in those links.
I see no reason why a stock that's in a nicely established downtrend can't be traded short as long as the downtrend continues. In fact I've ridden a few of them myself.
Cheers
Bunyip
Long term trend following doesn't work so well going short....because of 0.
Wayne
Could you explain in words please why you think a trend following approach isn't well suited to trading short. You mentioned this on another thread and included a couple of links to support your case, but I couldn't make any sense of the info in those links.
I see no reason why a stock that's in a nicely established downtrend can't be traded short as long as the downtrend continues. In fact I've ridden a few of them myself.
Cheers
Bunyip
wayneL
30th-March-2006, 01:53 PM
Wayne
Could you explain in words please why you think a trend following approach isn't well suited to trading short. You mentioned this on another thread and included a couple of links to support your case, but I couldn't make any sense of the info in those links.
I see no reason why a stock that's in a nicely established downtrend can't be traded short as long as the downtrend continues. In fact I've ridden a few of them myself.
Cheers
Bunyip
Bunyip,
You sure can short stocks profitably, but it depends on your time horizon whether it will be succesful in the long term.
If you are take short-medium term trends (trades that last a few weeks only) or take swing trades, shortselling works fine. I made most of my income last calander year from short selling swings.
But if you trade the big trends, such as tech/a's system, it won't work.
Long term trend following really relies on fat tails in the distribution of returns to make it really profitable. That means you keep getting stopped out or picking up only small wins, until you pick up that one (or few) really big trends. Eventually you're sitting on nothing but outliers if you happen to be in a bull market. But thats why they take a while to get going.
But on the short side, there is no such thing as a relly big outlier, because you can only go to zero... and even that doesn't happen often on shortable stocks.
It's easy to prove. Just backtest it. Take techtrader for example and test it on the short side only. It doesn't work.
Remember we are talking about long term trend trading. Other styles are a whole 'nuther bowl of wax.
Here's an example: (assuming both traders trade on margin)
Trader (a) trades a stock from $1 to $11. He has made 1000% profit on the unleveraged amount.
Trader (b) trades the same stock from $11 all the way back to $1. That trader only made ~90% profit on the unleveraged amount.
Thats different from swing traders:
Trader (a) trades a stock from $30 to $33. He has made 10% profit.
Trader (b) shorts the stock from $33 to $30. He has still made 9.1%
Different situation alltogether.
Cheers
Could you explain in words please why you think a trend following approach isn't well suited to trading short. You mentioned this on another thread and included a couple of links to support your case, but I couldn't make any sense of the info in those links.
I see no reason why a stock that's in a nicely established downtrend can't be traded short as long as the downtrend continues. In fact I've ridden a few of them myself.
Cheers
Bunyip
Bunyip,
You sure can short stocks profitably, but it depends on your time horizon whether it will be succesful in the long term.
If you are take short-medium term trends (trades that last a few weeks only) or take swing trades, shortselling works fine. I made most of my income last calander year from short selling swings.
But if you trade the big trends, such as tech/a's system, it won't work.
Long term trend following really relies on fat tails in the distribution of returns to make it really profitable. That means you keep getting stopped out or picking up only small wins, until you pick up that one (or few) really big trends. Eventually you're sitting on nothing but outliers if you happen to be in a bull market. But thats why they take a while to get going.
But on the short side, there is no such thing as a relly big outlier, because you can only go to zero... and even that doesn't happen often on shortable stocks.
It's easy to prove. Just backtest it. Take techtrader for example and test it on the short side only. It doesn't work.
Remember we are talking about long term trend trading. Other styles are a whole 'nuther bowl of wax.
Here's an example: (assuming both traders trade on margin)
Trader (a) trades a stock from $1 to $11. He has made 1000% profit on the unleveraged amount.
Trader (b) trades the same stock from $11 all the way back to $1. That trader only made ~90% profit on the unleveraged amount.
Thats different from swing traders:
Trader (a) trades a stock from $30 to $33. He has made 10% profit.
Trader (b) shorts the stock from $33 to $30. He has still made 9.1%
Different situation alltogether.
Cheers
bunyip
30th-March-2006, 10:45 PM
Wayne
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. You're right.....the fact that a stock can fall no lower than zero means that there is a limit on the profit potential of short trades, whereas with longs there's no limit to how high a stock may go, hence no limit on the profit potential.
Nevertheless, the profit potential of short selling can be considerable, and it can come in a relatively short period of time due to the steepness of downtrends compared to uptrends. But I'm only telling you what you already know.
Like you, my experience with short selling has been very positive.
Cheers
Bunyip
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. You're right.....the fact that a stock can fall no lower than zero means that there is a limit on the profit potential of short trades, whereas with longs there's no limit to how high a stock may go, hence no limit on the profit potential.
Nevertheless, the profit potential of short selling can be considerable, and it can come in a relatively short period of time due to the steepness of downtrends compared to uptrends. But I'm only telling you what you already know.
Like you, my experience with short selling has been very positive.
Cheers
Bunyip
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