View Full Version : TTS - Tattersalls Limited

28th-April-2005, 07:09 PM
Is anyone aware of the firms selling "Tattersalls" due to float in June/July 2005? I would like a slice of the pie.

2nd-June-2005, 01:55 PM
From E*Trade...

Tattersall's to list in July
02/06/2005 10:42:11 AM

Australia's biggest privately-owned company Tattersall's will list in July after a $2.03 billion public float, the country's biggest this year.

Mum and dad investors will be able to apply for shares in Tattersall's at $2.90 per share under the initial public offer.

The company will have about 700 million shares on issue at the time of listing on the Australian Stock Exchange, expected to be early next month.

Beneficiaries, including descendants of company founder George Adams, and staff will take up 600 million shares and 100 million new shares will be offered to the public.

About $290 million will be raised from the public offer, although the final price will not be set until after an institutional bookbuild process.

Tattersall's is expected to have a market capitalisation of $2.03 billion on listing.

"Listing on the ASX will provide new opportunities to write the next chapters in the history of Tattersall's," Tattersall's chairman David Jones said.

Tattersall's chief executive Duncan Fischer said listing would provide the group with greater access to capital for expansion and help the company position itself for gaming and lottery licences.

"It will allow us to build even further on our strong brands, our reputation of trust and integrity, and our deep and long experience in the gaming and lotteries industries," Mr Fischer said.

The retail share offer is expected to open on June 10 and close on June 29.

A final price will be established for the shares following an institutional bookbuild to be conducted from July 4 to July 5.

In its prospectus, Tattersall's is forecasting total revenue of $2.52 billion for the year ending June 30, 2006, with total earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) of $228.8 million.

Tattersall's has had to restructure from a private entity with about 2,500 beneficiaries into a corporate entity before beginning the process to list on the ASX.

Tattersall's had been expected to float on the ASX late last year but it was delayed by opposition from the trust's beneficiaries and the need to secure favourable rulings in relation to the restructure from the Australian Tax Office.

Tattersall's holds one of two gaming machine licences in Victoria, has keno operations in a joint venture with Tabcorp, and operates the lottery in Victoria, the Northern Territory and Tasmania.

2nd-June-2005, 05:56 PM
I wonder how the share price of 700 million shares @ $2.90 stacks up "value" wise against UTB @ $13 (abt. 133 million shares) and TAH @ $16 (abt. 400 million shares)?

Any thoughts?



3rd-June-2005, 01:11 PM

Where can I get the prospectus? I am not having much luck with ASX flotsam (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/floats/UpcomingFloatDetail.jsp?asxcode=TTS) or jb were (http://www.gsjbwere.com/)


3rd-June-2005, 01:35 PM
Macquarie are handling the float.

I've heard it will be difficult.

Good luck!!


3rd-June-2005, 04:25 PM
Rang Macquarie, must be a broker client, a bank account is not sufficient. Best chance is with Tattersall's direct. Tough to buy in.

3rd-June-2005, 04:41 PM
Yay - It appears that they have just published the Prospectus at Tatts (http://www.tattersalls.com.au/) - there is a "Shares" tab up the top.

About to read the licence to print money now :p:

son of baglimit
3rd-June-2005, 04:44 PM
before u read the prospectus, read the articles in todays afr, conparing with the other gaming stocks like tah & utb - you might be better off avoiding or jumping in later when they become a little more common....better than 2.90 likely to be available down the track.

13th-July-2005, 02:43 AM
If you ever wondered what those odd spikes on the graphs were here is an explanation:

Memories of AMP, or wrong decimal point?
By Rebecca Urban and Helen Westerman
The Age July 8, 2005

An early bid for 7500 Tattersall's shares at $40 each - a staggering 12,800 per cent higher than the original price offered to retail investors - brought back memories from the AMP listing debacle seven years earlier.

Early buyers incurred huge losses on the insurer's first day of trading, thanks to a swag of brokers who bid ridiculously high to ensure a slice of the action.

It's a strategy that professional buyers often employ. However, because opening prices are determined by the weighted average of bids sitting in the pipeline, the ploy can backfire when everybody decides to do the same.

And that's what happened with AMP, where some paid up to $45 for shares - almost twice as high as the average price that day - for a stock that closed at $23.

In Tattersall's case, the $40-a-share bidder appeared to be a lone eager beaver or, as some brokers suggested, the victim of a wrongly placed decimal point. Shares opened at a very reasonable $3.50 and closed at $3.46 on a record day in which $4.2 billion of stock was traded.

20th-July-2005, 10:29 AM
An old buy at $3.20 was activated yesterday - money is returned on the same day - hopefully a good omen - and this morning an announcement on merged activities with Bill Express - this may be the beginning of an aggressive company. - time will tell

20th-July-2005, 12:32 PM
There seems to be huge sell orders but the price isn't moving much either way. Obviously there are still enough buyers to take up the slack. I've got an order in for a few cents below what it is trading for now just in case it drops a bit during the day.

billy monday
19th-November-2005, 09:57 PM
This is my first post. Just wondering what investors think about
Tattersalls for a long term hold, any ideas?
good luck
billy monday.

son of baglimit
20th-November-2005, 10:36 PM
there is a clear view in the marketplace that TTS is heavily overpriced - mainly due to mum & dad types 'just having to have some' - and i suppose the general success of pure gaming stocks in aust. - until they have the diversity and can prove their profit making ability, they are a 'dont touch em' in my book.

billy monday
21st-November-2005, 09:50 AM
Son of baglimit,
yes in some ways it might be like that, i will just watch and wait.

16th-March-2006, 07:28 PM
Check out the 3pm-close action. That wasn't a few mum and dad investors hooking into too much viagra.

Anyone know whats going on?

21st-March-2006, 03:46 PM
Double Bottom????

Having a lookey at TTS & there could be a possible Double Bottom developing...

If it breaks the neckline we could see it rising up to $3.25 or so...

Fundamentally I have noticed people 'bagging' it, but technically definately worth watching for a poss short term trade...

I watched TOL back in Feb form a double bottom that really payed off once it broke the neckline!!!!

27th-March-2006, 10:35 AM
I'll have to work out a way to backtest the viagra signal.

(note in chart below, trading for today not finished.)

16th-August-2006, 06:01 PM
Looking good today. It went up at the end of the day 

17th-August-2006, 01:08 AM
After all that battering :mad: ...it finally bounces a bit.

However, though how long will this last as the chance of TAH takin it to high court on the decision. It may go similar way as to Toll did.


18th-August-2006, 03:57 PM
It doesn't make sense that tts is going up on high vol today. Is someone interested in taking tats over? UTB trying to make it a merger of unequals?

18th-August-2006, 07:46 PM
haven't read the news? Tabcorp has withdrawn their offer of unitab.. shot down by the ACCC.

18th-August-2006, 08:54 PM
Yes, but that was yesterday.

Today, we had news that large utb shareholders were unhappy with the tts ceo taking over and wanted the utb ceo to stay. That should have made the sp drop - I was thinking of selling. However, it went up.

8th-November-2006, 10:59 AM
pushing the 3.70 mark again

29th-November-2006, 07:46 AM
"Mystery bidder signals twist in the Talarius tale

28 November 2006
The deal in which Australia's Tattersall's is buying the largest UK adult gaming centre operator, Talarius, may not be conclusive. On Friday, a late bidder signalled his approach by buying six million Talarius shares, although he has yet to be identified, and no counter offer had been put on the table by this morning.

It was recently confirmed that a bid for Talarius - which has nearly 200 Quicksilver centres in the UK - had been made by a joint venture controlled by the Australian lottery operator and the Macquarie Bank.

The offer was 270p a share in cash, valuing the business at 137.2m, and would represent the first European purchase for Tattersall's, which took a 10 per cent stake in Talarius at the end of last year.

Talarius CEO Nick Harding said that one of the contributing factors to shareholders' decision to sell was due to the forthcoming introduction of a smoking ban in the UK, which he said would lead to 'choppy waters' in the business in 2007. He and his management team would be staying under the terms of the deal.

The floating of Talarius in April 2005 saw shares initially sold at 80p each.

The mystery bidder may be Irish bookmaker Paddy Power, according to some speculation in the national press."


10th-February-2007, 03:45 PM
Anyone heard anything about a current court case involving this stock?

10th-February-2007, 07:43 PM
I know the daughter of one of the guys sueing.
They are clever and I am sure they will get some cash but things have not been going their way lately. They were offered a settlement and refused. Quite an interesting case.

30th-April-2007, 05:06 PM
I know the daughter of one of the guys sueing.
They are clever and I am sure they will get some cash but things have not been going their way lately. They were offered a settlement and refused. Quite an interesting case.

settlement reached 19/4/07 paying trustees $16 million + $2 million legals for trustees of estate of george adams (tatts founder) to cease legal action seeking commissions. $71.4 million was put aside when tatts floated so remaining $50 million+ reported as profit and a special dividend of 4 cents fully framnked will be recorded on 14 sept 2007 and paid with final dividend.

30th-April-2007, 05:38 PM
Last week or so the SP took a small hammering (Vic govt increased pokie tax) but notice today a director bought 20M worth of stock, on market trade, obviously sees it as a cheap buy with recent retracement - maybe another bumper profit to report soon (last was 54% up).

1st-May-2007, 12:36 AM
How cheap? Right now is $5.15, given it will get $5.50. Only 6%. It is not very exciting to invest in this one.

1st-May-2007, 08:44 AM
Hi Ta. Do you know the history of this stock?

Until 2 years ago, this company was a private trust (it only launched in July 2005 at about $3) - so it is very young as a stock - see attached graph. Given that its business is wholly in the gaming/gambling sector AND Australians' love for that activity, I think it is safe to presume that it has a very bright future.

I agree with b_b_bum that it could be considered cheap - from a blue-chip perspective.

1st-May-2007, 09:48 AM
If I want to invest in med-long term. May I ask where is the competitive edge of this company? I can not see why it has better future than UTB, not to mention the international gambling company.
The P/E right now 23.62 compared with the sector average 18.03 is a not cheap company.
If we assume the profit is going to increase dramatically this year. and invest in short term, May I ask where the profit from?

The only very strong indicator is the director bought a lot and it is a fairly new company and suppose to have a long way to go.

So if I can understand where the competitive edge or where the short term profit from. I may invest some into this.

10th-July-2007, 06:13 PM
TTS listed as one of the top 10 shares to own long-term (with least perceived risk) in last weekend's Sunday Telegraph money section.

TTS listed in preference to Tabcorp, as it has less risk of government intervention regarding its gaming licences.

Also in the gaming sector, Aristocrat (ALL) also named as a top 10 share to own long term with their current push into Japan.

12th-July-2007, 09:58 PM
A possible breakout from the recent downtrend, although on only average volume. We have a higher low and are now looking for a higher high. Today's close is level with the previous high, so another up day or two before it turns back will look promising.


13th-July-2007, 01:11 PM
Nice to see a definate break above the Bollingers this morning - nudging $5.00. Let's hope this is the beginning of an ongoing movement.

16th-July-2007, 02:52 PM
The trend continues. Looks to have definately broken it sideways movement.

Could ANZ (29/6) and ING (13/7) jumping onboard have helped this along?

14th-November-2007, 10:09 AM
Horse flu seems like a thing of the past. Racing again on December 1st in NSW and Qld. What effect will thi have on TTS. Institutions may come back here? Any thoughts

14th-November-2007, 03:33 PM
Horse flu seems like a thing of the past. Racing again on December 1st in NSW and Qld. What effect will this have on TTS. Institutions may come back here? Any thoughts

Not sure about the effect, Nibbo.

From my rather quick look over the recent Annual report, I think only 17% of it comes from Wagering (admittedly this is in QLD) - which I presume is related to the horsies.

The rest is mainly from the pokie machines (52%) and Lotto (22%).

Correct me if I'm wrong about this. I agree the equine flu had an impact on the share price, so maybe it will work the other way.

3rd-December-2007, 09:43 AM
For those that don't know, Tattersalls Limited has been renamed to Tatts Group.

See below http://www.tattsgroup.com/
Shareholders support Tattersall's Limited name change

Shareholders at this year's Annual General Meeting voted in favour of a name change from Tattersall's Limited to Tatts Group Limited. As a result, a new logo has been created for the Group and a new Tatts Group corporate website has been developed. To view the new website, click here.


10th-April-2008, 03:50 PM
In Trading halt pending the State Govt's ending of the poker machine duopoly held by Tatts & Tabcorp. (see Age article today: http://business.theage.com.au/tabcorp-tatts-lose-poker-machine-duopoly/20080410-251y.html)

What views on the outcomes? Both have other gaming interests, I guess.

Holding both :banghead:

11th-April-2008, 11:17 AM
I'm a Unitab holder from the float up here in Qld. Merging with Tatt's last year has been a complete waste. Unitab would have been better as a standalone. Now Tatt's biggest asset is unitab and tatts pokies wasn't worth having!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

12th-April-2008, 11:50 AM
Very dismal day for TTS holders yesterday, but all is not lost. At least they can apply for other types of gaming licences in the future. Expansion is the key to survival

24th-June-2008, 04:21 PM
Does anyone think TTS SP reached the bottom yet? Or still a long way down for them? Does anyone also know when the new wagering licence is due to be awarded? Thanks

29th-December-2008, 02:23 PM
One of the better Ascending Triangles I've seen for some time. Volume is coming back in and rising OBV suggests the buyers are resuming control of the share price. A breakout of the 2.75 resistance could be interesting. Has a gap to fill at 3.50.


29th-December-2008, 02:47 PM
kam this has been on my watchlist for a while.

Not only is the triangle looking good but it has been in a trading range for about 8-9 months building a very good base after its dramatic fall in April, quite a bit of work has been done.

I will be trading this on a breakout and retest of the $2.75-$2.80 area or on a last point of support above that area.
Longer term target around $4.50 based on the trading range but shorter term target around $3.50.

Green lines are the triangle based on closing price

18th-September-2009, 11:48 AM
The NSW Treasurer has announced that agreement has been reached with the opposition Liberal Party to pass the leglisation for the sale of the NSW Lotteries.

Tatts Group (TTS) would be a major contender for bidding on the NSW lotteries business. The NSW Lotteries is so profitable that it used to support the operations of all the public hospitals in NSW. Now the NSW Lotteries revenue goes into consolidated revenue.

In the meantime Tatts is bidding for the Victoria wagering business and there will be significant news flow out about this in October.

Disclosure Position held

21st-September-2009, 01:35 PM
The Australian Government has recently announced a significant increase in the pension rate.

It is likely that Gambling stocks may be benificiaries of the increase.

Those that may benefit are Tatts Group (TTS) which runs Lotto pokies etc.
There is also Tabcorp and Crown who may also benefit.

19th-October-2009, 02:47 PM
Today the company announced that it has been granted a four month extension of it's Victorian Gaming Operators licence from 14 April 2012 so that it will now expire on 15 August 2012.

I disclose that I own securities in Tatts Group.


McCoy Pauley
2nd-March-2010, 12:12 PM
TTS announces that it will pay $850 million to acquire the NSW Lotteries business and its share price takes a tumble today. Currently down 14c (about 5.5%). Looks like the market thinks that TTS has overpaid for the business.

2nd-March-2010, 02:00 PM
TTS announces that it will pay $850 million to acquire the NSW Lotteries business and its share price takes a tumble today. Currently down 14c (about 5.5%). Looks like the market thinks that TTS has overpaid for the business.

Yes, the consensus seems to be that the price should have been in the range of $600m - $700m.


2nd-March-2010, 03:02 PM
There will be synergies, and lets face it, the CEO needs to keep his pay up, can't let the company get too small.

They would have been desperate to win this.

8th-March-2010, 10:43 PM
Tatts is an interesting stock, floated in 05 at 2.90 traded today at 2.35 and they don't seem to have done any large cap raisings in that whole time....they have a great divided history and claim to be able to maintain that going forward and to be able to fund the NSW lottery's purchase from cash and established debt facility's.

Sure they lost the Victorian pokies business and paid to much for NSW lotto, but they really had to make sure they won that bid so its somewhat understandable...and going forward there still lots of opportunity's in other states and the VIC Keno business etc etc.

And paying a gross divi of around 11% they do seem under valued for a stock with a cap of over 3 billion....these guys seem to be pretty good at what they do....thoughts anyone.

1st-April-2010, 10:53 AM
Yes, the consensus seems to be that the price should have been in the range of $600m - $700m.


They increased their bid by $150 million to take $200 million in unclaimed prizes which the NSW Government will still have responsibility for if it is claimed.

Good on the NSW Government looking after their own interests before the people of NSW.

26th-July-2012, 09:03 PM
TTS - Analysis on chart


Country Lad
5th-January-2013, 09:06 PM
Momentum has been increasingly stronger since it broke $3. I will hold till momentum weakens.

Country Lad

5th-January-2013, 09:34 PM
Momentum has been increasingly stronger since it broke $3. I will hold till momentum weakens.

Country Lad

Very interesting share, I own a bit of this stock bough it in the low 2"s
They have also bought SA logo as well and they are in the process of moving into Brisbane.
Brisbane is going to be Such a great oppurtunity,
Overheads will decrease, wages rent, assistance by government also lower gambling taxes
But also tatts sales are increasing

I have also just bought some YBR stocks

7th-March-2013, 07:47 PM
Any interest out there in Tatts at the moment? I'm looking at both them and TAH - highlights include:

- All major metrics are up (when stripping out sale of Pokies in VIC)
- Ventures in to online are doing well
- Overseas investments seem to be struggling a little
- Relatively high payout ratio for divedends
- Compensation from Vic Government pending
- Move in to SA
- Long licenses

The current P/E of 16 doesn't seem too bad (maybe it's the overzealous environment we are in!) and with a current yield of 6.1% this doesn't look too bad.

Is there a potential threat of government regulation/new players that are holding this back? Or is it fully priced?

4th-December-2014, 06:34 PM
Pending no Government High Court appeal within 28 days, Tattersals should get a share price boost with a nice half billion dollar win against the government for a compensation claim.

4th-December-2014, 08:41 PM
Pending no Government High Court appeal within 28 days, Tattersals should get a share price boost with a nice half billion dollar win against the government for a compensation claim.

I don't know... I think it's already been boosted back in late June.

4th-December-2014, 09:30 PM
They should use it to pay down their debt which has blown out to 1.3bil. and costs 89mil. in interest per year.

15th-June-2015, 10:30 PM
TTS has basically completed it's almost 5 months sideways correction, which at this stage can be identified as a 3-3-5 Expanded Flat. At first I thought it would be a Triangle Scenario as Wave 4, but it never developed to the point where it's end can be identified.
The end of completed pattern also confirms a Daily RSI, which ended at the lower trendline, as usually most corrections do in an uptrend. Also, the recent decline almost touched the lower line of uptrend Channel.

The simplest way to label the advance would be 1-2-3-4, though internal subdivisions of wave 3 are not perfect.
This means that wave 5 is underway which must exceed the top of $4.20.


The internal subdivisions of the most recent sideways Correction are in the chart below-simple 3, followed by Expanding Triangle and simple 5.
Triangle itself already speaks that the decline that follows is terminal, and the internal subdivisions to todays bottom of $3.77 can already be counted as 5.

Note that the previous two smaller corrections has the similar form, so a probability that this one is a Fractal is high. Fractals combined with complete EW structure points to high probability setups.


It is also a good thing to do is to step back and look at the Big Picture, which somehow has a feel that the above labelling is too bearish. If connected the advance pivots, one can see a classic behaviour of the start of a Third wave- prices breakout from the First Wave Channel, and the Backtest that follows tests it from above. This behaviour also adds more confidence that the most recent Correction is Over. Both Scenarios point to the higher prices, and which one is in operation can be seen as waves develop in the future and what a broader market will do.

The main point is that the $3.80 is the price at which one must consider buying TTS.

To contain a risk I would say if the price drops to $3.70 and lingers here for a few days, it would be below the ascending Breakout level and the structure instantly becomes unclear-in this case it is better to bite a small loss than wait until market brings another opportunity.


18th-June-2015, 05:37 PM
In the past 2 days TTS saw slightly penetrating the bullish breakout trendline, but jumped above back straight away, backtested it and now seems to be ready to launch a small degree Third wave Up. I've bought it at $3,76, with an out level of $3,72, risking only 4 cents, or about 1%. If this plays out well, I will hold it for as long as bullish structure keeps on developing. Otherwise it will become one of many that are joining bear trend one after another.

I will update situation only if TTS keeps on rising from here.